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Article Written on: Tuesday-December-30-2008 BuzzBoards Calendar Contact Advertise About
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Louisiana, Same Sex Advocates and Governor Jindal


Written by: BayouBuzz Staff


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It’s a clever tactic by supporters of legally-sanctioned homosexual relations, but if it is the will of the people of Louisiana, this agenda may be derailed.

 

As consumers of what passes as “news,” observers always should wonder when something becomes declared “newsworthy” by the media that doesn’t seem to have any real cause or impetus behind it. Such was this story about how a state board, after its existence of seven years, and about a year after election of socially conservative Gov. Bobby Jindal who appoints it members, suddenly has gotten worried promoters of legally-sanctioned homosexual relations.

 

The Commission on Marriage and Family has seldom conducted any activities, but Jindal has expressed interest in activating it and its nominal head state Sen. Sharon Weston Broome has scheduled a meeting of it. Jindal released an executive order on Aug. 22 re-establishing it. In October, he appointed its members. But only now does it seem to be drawing the alarm of some homosexual advocacy groups, which claim now it could be used as some kind of political cover for an “attack” of homosexuals adopting a child. They argue too many religious conservatives appear to be on this panel and, even though not a word has been uttered indicating any disapproval of these kinds of adoptions, that now it’s something to be worried about because the people of Arkansas in November voted to make unconstitutional such arrangements and the Commission could conceivably promote a similar policy.

 

This is an odd rationale. The Commission can do nothing but recommend, but somehow its opponents think a pronouncement by it on the issue would engender enough political power as to sweep the state into also making unconstitutional unmarried couples being able to adopt jointly. Yet there’s no real reason this has to happen: if enough of the people and political elites think this such a measure is good public policy, they don’t need a commission to tell them that and get them going to achieve it.

 

The timing of this complaint also is extremely curious. Why complain now? If these groups had stated publicly their concerns with the re-establishment in August (with the order itself extolling the virtues of marriage only between a man and woman, overwhelmingly approved by Louisianans into the Constitution years ago), or when the Commission’s composition was determined in October, or when Arkansas acted in November, that might make sense. But why go public, seemingly without warning, at the end of December?

 

Even more intriguing is, by law, just as same-sex marriage was ratified as unconstitutional, many years before that the Louisiana Legislature prohibited unmarried couples from adopting. Act 235 from 1991 created Article 1198 of the Children’s Code which unambiguously states that, outside of intrafamily or agency adoptions, “A single person, eighteen years or older, or a married couple jointly may petition to adopt a child through an agency.” Legally, this idea the groups see as problematic is a nonissue: the only couples that may adopt in Louisiana are married, and since same-sex couples cannot marry, such couples cannot adopt. What these groups complain about being attenuated already is banned by law, so why are they complaining? And the law still permits a single homosexual parent to adopt, so where’s the problem?

 

The answer lies in a little-noticed court decision made days ago. In New York, where same-sex couple adoptions are allowed, two men sued Louisiana to have the birth certificate of an adoptive child born in the state altered to put both of their names on it. Louisiana allows adoptive parents on the official birth certificate to have their name(s) and seals the original. However, R.S. 40:79 makes clear that “If the child is adopted by a married couple, the names of both parties shall be recorded as the parents …” and “If the child is adopted by a single person, the word ‘adopted’ may be written on the new birth certificate if the adopting parent requests it, otherwise no such wording shall be imprinted on the document and the name of the single adopting parent shall be recorded on the new birth certificate.”  In other words, state law does not anticipate putting a non-married couple’s names on the document.

 

U.S. Eastern Louisiana District Judge Jay Zainey (a 2002 appointee of Pres. George W. Bush) ruled that since the adoption was legal in New York and that Louisiana allowed adoptive parents’ names on certificates, that the state would have to accommodate even though an attorney general’s opinion on the ambiguity ruled that the state did not have to put both names. This is a federal question since it involved the “privileges and immunities” clause of the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, the only way it would appear that the state could prevent this would be a law or amendment that specifies that unmarried couples cannot adopt, as opposed to listing that only married couples or single individuals may do so.

 

And that’s what advocates of legalized homosexual unions are afraid of. With this ruling, despite the constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, some privileges of marriage are being conveyed to same-sex couples. Consider: what if these two men decided to move to Louisiana? Because of this ruling, regarding the welfare of the child (the men argued in their court briefing health care benefits could be denied relative to the child) this same-sex union would have equal footing with constitutional marriage. It’s a back door way of forcing benefits associated with marriage to be granted to same sex pairs, contravening the Constitution.

 

Unless that is taken care of legally or constitutionally. It’s not a commission making recommendations that they fear, but that the import of an event, this decision relative to existing adoption and records law and the impact on same-sex unions, that has them worried. Thus, they went public when word of this court decision got out in order to defuse the situation and to deflect attention from this, using the Commission and the passage of the Arkansas amendment as excuses. They didn’t want anybody connecting the dots that could allow this new loophole to continue undisturbed

 

Such tactics should not distract those who believe public policy should grant no special privileges to people of the same sex who decide they want to live together and call themselves united in some fashion. If they can muster a majority, they need to have legislation passed or an amendment ratified to negate this end run around the Constitution.

 

Jeff Sadow is an associate professor of political science at Louisiana State University Shreveport; his views are his own. He received his Ph.D. at the University of New Orleans and has observed state politics for over two decades. You may contact him at Jeffrey.Sadow@lsus.edu, read his daily commentary “Between the Lines” at http://www.between-lines.com, and his “Louisiana Legislature Log” at http://www.laleglog.com



 












 

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Comments from BayouBuzz readers

I would define "rights" as those things which our government cannot limit or take away........hmmmmm...... theoritically we have "rights"...... in actuality we do not.... as my -ex Yat wife would say "but we're ta-spos-tah"
Written by kpf on 1/10/2009
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I forgot Sid, something about issuing licenses so people can boink other people in the arse and collect a check for doing so..... Sort of sounds like Government to me.....
Written by   on 1/7/2009
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Actually my feelings are not hurt, I have rather enjoyed this blog. What was the topic?
Written by Sid on 1/6/2009
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Up jumps that illusionary word; “rights’ again……. KPF, there are no ‘rights’…. Or at least not in the way folks like to talk….. The word is almost as wrongly and often misapplied and misunderstood as the word ‘freedom’ is……. Abilities, privileges and good fortune? Now those are words or terms that are a little closer to the truth…. And those become manifest as a result of a cost or a toll. And one of the things that come about after all that exertion of cost or toll is and understanding that there is a power that enables that state to exist……… And it is only through the state of possessing and being able to exercise power that something can be enforced….. And quite often it is found that some powers have to be exorcised………. Prohibition…… Interesting topic you focused on there… Prohibition was established as one of those tools in the arsenal that ‘civil rights’ activists imposed to maintain or cement their quest for power….. Women’s suffrages’ and all that…. Can’t have all those men wandering around and freely consuming beer and telling women when they were full of crap now can we? Not wanting to get into all the history, but actually the stage for Prohibition came into being as the result of a number of exertions of power… First there was the need for revenues to fund the Congress….. So the alcohol or the “Whiskey Tax” was enacted…… Used to be folks could make their moonshine and sell it and keep the profits….. The Governments first use of force of the Government to impose its rule over ‘rights’ of the American public was George Washington’s role in putting down the “Whiskey Rebellion”… It also was one of only two times that a sitting President would personally command the military in the field… Washington gracefully pardoned ‘the offenders’ after the insurrection was ‘quashed’……. So, taxes could be collected, and folks could still drink, and everyone was ‘happy’ to a certain extent….. Well, after Prohibition was passed, no liquor was allowed, and of course that avenue of taxable revenue was ‘lost’….. Ahhhhhh, but the will of the people or the majority…… Did the government really have the ‘right’ or the ‘power’ to keep them from drinking? The Government, and those few that tried to impose their will upon the many got their asses handed to them a’la the underlying will of the majority… Bootlegging, smuggling, profiteering, whatever you want to call it…. It took the Government a while to realize that instead of not only missing out on tax revenue they were also spending an inordinate amount of money and resources trying to enforce a stupid law that guaranteed the ‘rights’ of a couple of disgruntled women to ‘sober’ husbands that they could henpeck day and night…….. Sooooooooooo, Prohibition was repealed. ……….. Sooner or later, stupid subjects like Homo marriages, the ‘rights’ of the Muslim cult to come over here and disrupt our society, illegal immigration, and a whole host of other ailments we are faced with are going to come to their day of reckoning as well……… That is unless of course we are all equipped with micro chips and a self-destruct button embedded in our brains because we gave someone the power to quash our abilities, privileges and good fortune…………….
Written by   on 1/6/2009
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Getting back to the article... its passage "...they need to have legislation passed or an amendment ratified to negate this end run around the Constitution" brings to mind.... why have we had so few Constitutional Amendments proposed or passed for many decades. Keep in mind both alcohol prohibition and its repeal required Constitutional Amendments. We don't have this anymore. That means the Federal government has taken power that it is forbidden to have. I'm not sure this is really important... I am sure that it is not at all important to most of our citizenry.... not that those two things should be confused with each other, mind you.
Written by kpf on 1/6/2009
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Uh, blub, take a closer look at yourself -> -> -> ~:> ...... Ha!ha-ha-ha!!!!
Written by   on 1/6/2009
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:)
Written by Tee Dub on 1/6/2009
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And we're sorry that your unmatched genius can find its only outlet in this important worldwide forum, buzzbard.
Written by   on 1/6/2009
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I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Both of you.
Written by Tee Dub on 1/6/2009
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Maybe the buzzbard. He'll probably use that as a screenname.
Written by   on 1/6/2009
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Good one, no name. How about "The Bard of the Blogs." That should make teabag proud.
Written by   on 1/6/2009
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Oh Sid, don't you understand hyperbole? Don't you understand exaggeration? You must an idiot, too, at least according to William of the Blogs.
Written by   on 1/6/2009
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Sorry your having a bad day TW, go watch your Fox news and get happy again. By definition, you have called those who may disagree with you "a retarded person mentally equal or inferior to a child two years old, a foolish or stupid person". Thank you, now we can work to overcome this malady. Maybe I should go watch MSNBC so I might become more intelligent?
Written by Sid on 1/6/2009
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Or to put Tee's logic into less academic terminology: I'm not stupid, YOU'RE stupid!!
Written by   on 1/6/2009
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Alas, tee, "He that loves to be flattered is worthy o' the flatterer." So I guess this means you deserve the righteous praise that you heap upon yourself. Pray tell what great tools you have to measure your own intelligence. Might they be the calligraphed parchment hanging on thy walls???
Written by   on 1/6/2009
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What is lacking from this discussion is whether what I say is true. Many of you seem to take it as an article of faith that you're not idiots. But the only tool you have to evaluate whether in fact you are idiots is your brain, which, let's face it, if you're an idiot, is a blunt instrument at best - one hardly equipped to evaluate its own intelligence. Asking some of you to reflect on your intelligence is like a wife asking her color-blind husband which pants go best with what blouse. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/6/2009
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Most liberals are like that.
Written by Sid on 1/6/2009
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Most liberals are like that.
Written by Sid on 1/6/2009
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What happened is the routine backlash from tee dub when other readers don't buy into his delusions that he's some kind of gifted intellectual theorist. As soon as anyone refuses to play his snobbish academic games, he calls them morons, idiots, 8th graders, hillbillies, rednecks, and several other playground slurs. If tee was one-tenth as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be the lead writer for some national publication. -- I think he's earned the Shakespeare of Bloggers title given to him earlier, it fits his ego quite well. At least we haven't been subjected to as many of his cutesy french lines lately. He'll be back in a lather at any time, but we all know exactly what to expect from him.
Written by   on 1/5/2009
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Wow, what happened here? Did we just experience a bitch slappin contest over the internet?
Written by Sid on 1/5/2009
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Oh crap Teeeeeeee-bluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuubbbbbb, now I understand where you get your inspiration from; "France currently holds the rotating EU Presidency. It drew up a draft declaration that condemns "discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity". All the countries of the European Union have signed on..... On December 10 France will submit the resolution to the UN - a date that as it happens is the sixtieth anniversary of the UN declaration of human rights..... The French resolution will help to give weight to the evolving international effort to counter discrimination against women and homosexuals. A resolution of this sort could well lead to a more formal UN resolution down the road, so from a human rights standpoint it is an important step in the right direction...... WELL T-BLUB, YOU ASTOUT ACEDEMIC YOU, YOU CAN TELL THE UN AND THE FRENCHIES FOR ME THAT THEY CAN BLOW ME.................................... A KISS.............. THERE IS SOMETHING DEFINIETLY WRONG WITH THIS BAYOU BUZZED BORED.......... Like I said, I am not interested in going to war so a bunch of 'gaygoyles' want to get married... So get bent over there T-blubbbb, instead of trying to fool the rest of us into the same position......
Written by   on 1/5/2009
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Poor-poor-poor T-duhhhhhhhhhhhhhbbbbb...... STILL sort of like a blindfolded retard swinging at a piñata... So paranoid and delusional he don’t even know who ‘writtenby’ is…….. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!! WUT A LOSER..... PROBABLY THE BEST ACEDEMIA CAN BUY!!!!!
Written by   on 1/5/2009
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Alas, teedub, I am done to death by slanderous tongue.
Written by   on 1/5/2009
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I have no idea as to whether you stink, moron. However, your mindless commentary does, as do your vain attempts at "humor" - it's 2009 all right, but you remain a complete idiot. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/5/2009
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OHhh, tee, I get it now. You really didn't smell anything.. you were just insinuating that I stink. I thought you really smelled something or had a computer with a web-nose or something that I haven't heard of. Boy, your gift for allegory and metaphorical language is too much for me. You are the Shakespeare of bloggers. An internet celebrity on the magnitude of Paris Hilton and Brad Pitt.
Written by   on 1/5/2009
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Ah, the no-name nitwit, you are so literal, it's embarrassing. Have you never heard of metaphor? Allegory? And enough of your anti-intellectual posturing. You have already proven that you have zero understanding of academia, or anything requiring more than an eighth grade education. Christ, you're an idiot. Kerry, I still maintain that your philosophy would work really well if we were still living in a small-scale, local, agrarian economy. It just doesn't work for a globalized economy, or rather, it works to the advantage of economic elites. Concrete, I didn't even read it, Ace. Looked like another word salad to me, and I stopped reading those a long time ago. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/5/2009
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Poor-poor-poor T-duhhhhhhhhhhhhhbbbbb...... Sort of like a blindfolded retard swinging at a piñata... So paranoid and delusional he don’t even know who ‘writtenby’ is…….. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!! Anyways T-blubbbbbbbbbbb, in trying to save face you try to change tact, in short you are a LOSER… Especially telling when attempting to play off your ignorant reasoning’s you write; “”””””Kerry, how are those rights enforced? Who guarantees those rights? The government………………….””””” You see T-blubbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb,,,,,, The government doesn’t enforce the constitution,,, Men such as myself do….. With our blood and body parts when we are dispatched to fight some war somewhere……… We don’t hide behind some retarded intellectual position that advocates cowering in a corner somewhere while spewing ignorant rants about freedoms and liberties that are based on nothing…. We get stuck going out there and Gitt’en R Done….. And no T-bluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuubbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb,,,,,,, I hardly find some gay illusion regarding “marriage” as reason to fight and possibly die for……………… In fact, considering the lunacy of things, and the things being acted upon and advocated by folks such as yourself, if I am crazy, well then I am proud of it because idiots such as yourself although becoming more numerous day by day are not a norm, and you are not a majority…… You are merely an aberration that hides behind the talents of others….. And when opportunity arises, you suck on their life’s blood as well in order to fatten yourself…. And if some law were enacted that would cause you to be slapped and sterilized so that you would not happen again, I would give it some serious consideration if I asked to back it……. And when it comes on down to it T-bluuuuuuubbbbb, if anyone or anything is a racist on this Buzz Bored, you are certainly the candidate for the front page cover………. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!
Written by   on 1/5/2009
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Hey tee, It's only a computer, not the real world, so if you smell something, look in your chair. But compared to your academic world, an internet blog probably is more real.
Written by   on 1/5/2009
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It is not so much a "tired notion of the market knows best" as it is a certainty (to me at least) that those who are entrusted to protect the citizens by regulating the market are instead corrupted and use their positions to financially benefit themselves and their backers. I guess you see what government "could be" whereas I see how corrupt it is. Or, as the article linked below states "...it is wiser to conclude that Washington politicians and bureaucrats will never put the average taxpayer or investor's interests above those of billionaire financiers." I prefer market outcomes not because it is preferrable to the good government "could do" (thru "equitable" wealth redistribution or what have you) but rather it is preferrable to the manipulation done by government officials to the detrement of the public so long as it benefits them and the monied interests behind them. http://mises.org/story/3273
Written by kpf on 1/5/2009
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Hey, what's that smell? Did someone pass gas in here?
Written by Tee Dub on 1/5/2009
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Awww , shlt, I thought Tee Dub had forever deprived us of his genius. But here he is again, supporting homosexuals, ignoring the social decay fostered by welfare, railing against George Bush and corporations, and even believing that politicians untainted by money is doable. It's 2009, but some things never change.
Written by   on 1/5/2009
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Good points, but welfare itself is only about 9% of federal government spending, whereas defense spending is over 25% of federal government spending - and remember we spend more on the military than the rest of the world combined. Social security could be fixed by raising the retirement age as well as the cap so that everyone pays on his/her entire salary, no matter how much (s)he makes - as long as there are no corporate loopholes; i.e., don't allow people to form corporations for the sole purpose of avoiding that tax. Medicare/Medicaid and the problems you mentioned with hospitals providing care to the uninsured could be fixed with a single-payer healthcare system that would provide people access to preventative healthcare instead of having them seek care at the last minute in emergency rooms, which as you note, costs us all. But instead we are beholden to this morass of private insurance "providers" whose sole motivation is corporate profit, and denial of services, all because of this tired notion of "the market always knows best" - the market knows best for some things, but not everything. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/4/2009
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Two sides of the same coin - only government can guarantee these rights - however - only governmen can DENY these rights as well. What I said aboout empowering government holds true. SS, Medicare/Medicaid and welfare make up 51% of the budget - and will make up an ever larger percentage over time. "Wasteful" spending includes not only $90 toilet seats for military aircraft but also every dime spent needlessly on subsidies, unneeded government programs and unneeded goernment jobs, grants, etc. Do not forget the cost to the working people on unfunded government mandates. For example, the government makes hospitals provide care for all - even illegal immigrants - but then these medical providers pass on the costs to those who can "afford" healthcare. It seems to me that both political parties are "step and fetchits" for their big money campaign donors. There is far less difference between these two parties than it appears.
Written by kpf on 1/4/2009
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Kerry, how are those rights enforced? Who guarantees those rights? The government. I know the government can be overly intrusive - for the last eight years I've been watching Bush and his Congressional enablers take away our privacy, habeas corpus, using torture, etc., etc., etc., all in the name of "security" (that great Ben Franklin quote comes to mind) - so you and I are on the same page with that one. And I think there is a lot of wasteful spending, but I think it's mostly on the military-industrial complex and corporate welfare. I think welfare for the poor is an easy scapegoat, despite the fact that it is but a pittance compared the spending I just mentioned. This scapegoating is made easier still by the perception (albeit not reality) that the majority of recipients of said welfare are black - this is an extremely racist nation - read the Buzz Backs for any race-tinged issue and you get a sense of that. So I think some areas of government need to be smaller - it's just that the areas I think need to be shrunk are the darlings of the right. And as for Sid, fair enough - as long as you're not voting to prevent gay people from marrying, despite your personal beliefs, then you are part of the solution and not the problem. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/4/2009
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If a same sex couple wants to get married, get married. Nobody is stopping them. I disagree with changing the meaning of marriage from the union between one woman and one man to whatever you guys want. So Comrade TW don't ram your belief that marriage should be redefined on me. As far as "gay marriage", I personally disagree with it on a Biblical basis but I would never stand in the way of any two people getting hitched...that's their business.
Written by Sid on 1/4/2009
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Wrong TW, "Fundamental Rights" are those that government is not supposed to encroach upon as government (in our system at least) is not empowered to deny us our fundamental rights. During the debates on the Crime Bill in '93 & '94 I heard conservative legislators desire to allow police to search cars - without cause - for drugs while liberal legislators desired to allow police - also without cause - to search cars for guns. Oddly enough (or, "pathetically enough") both sides decried the other's proposal as violations of the 4th Amendment. My point is that neither the left nor the right should violate Constitutional rights of the individual. Government DOES NOT grant these rights, government can only INFRINGE upon these rights. Finally, I know of no Libertarian who advocates the chaos of a non-existant government, rather they desire "limited" government. I know you think government will have all the money they need by simply raising taxes, but the reality is government is trying to do too much, with entirely too much wasteful, needless spending. Tough choices ahead for Obama, but I "justhave a feeling" that he will be up for the challenge.
Written by kpf on 1/3/2009
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Sid, how is someone getting married ramming anything down your throat? What possible impact does it have on you? Your denying them the right to be married has a very real impact on them. Why can't you get that? It's a really simple concept! TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/3/2009
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I am so hurt, I've been called a hillbilly because I disagree with Comrade TW. Oh what the heck, if you want to change historical facts go ahead. But this petty name calling because I believe the Bible is right on this issue, geez. For the record, if anybody out there wants to go Twinkie twisting (good one "by") go right ahead. Take the cruise and get hitched who cares. But please don't ram your beliefs down my throat. Read the Bible and not just the Old Testament, it's chock full of good advice and interesting history. I still find it hilarious that we are stupid Hillbillies when we disagree with liberal thinking. And I find it disconcerting that some of you twist history around and spin it to match your ideology. Reminds me of Nazi propaganda. Is History repeating itself? The general is correct, the only religion forcing itself on others is the extremist Muslim fascists and while we bicker about should it be legal for two gays to marry, they are carefully and constantly moving in on us. While we are being so politically correct we might as well get fitted for a robe with a middle east KKK hood.
Written by Sid on 1/3/2009
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Kerry, who bestows those fundamental rights? Government. Like it or not, the state, via the Constitution, is the only thing that can protect our rights. The people can't do it on their own - and many are unwilling to do it on their own - witness the various "commentaries" by "Crazy Smitty" and his ilk. International corporations don't care about our rights - they just want to maximize their profits. A government that is accountable to the voters is what we need - not one that answers to the monied interests (and yes, I know it's both the Democrats and Republicans at the feeding troth). I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I think we should have government-funded elections with free airtime provided by the networks. That would keep corporate interests from turning our leaders into prostitutes and let them (our leaders) focus on governing rather than trying to raise money for their own re-election. I know it's a pipe dream, but I think it's doable. I also know we've gotten a bit off-topic here, but that's my biggest gripe against libertarians - we need government to protect the very rights you want - it won't happen without one! TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/3/2009
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As an instrumentation tech for most of my career, I often had to generate and interpret "trends." Concerning the trend on the power of religion in government, it is becoming less and less influential over time. Except in the Muslim countries of course - which is why I think we need to kick Muslim ass ofen and as effectively as possible. If we have a nuclear war it will not be "Godless Communism" or the secular West that starts it but rather the religious kooks in the Muslim world. Our Salvation lies in preemptive strikes - kpf
Written by help us Curtis Lemay, you're our only hope on 1/3/2009
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Well I am glad you said 'fundamental' rights.... And if gays want to get married, all they have to do is book a gay cruise on a gay ship and have a gay captain perform a gay marriage ceremony.... Or they can approach it through incorporation...
Written by   on 1/3/2009
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And if one partner is sort of short, should the government issue some form of an annual 'subsidy' tax rebate?
Written by   on 1/3/2009
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If we have to debate "what government allows" and "what government does not allow" - we may as well not lable these as "fundamental rights" as this atually sounds to me as.... what government ALLOWS us to do or NOT do. Although both Sid and TW may denigrate Libertarians in fact when you empower government to "dictate" "fundemental rights" THERE ARE NO FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS. "Limited government" is not "no government" it is not "ineffectual government" it is government that stays the hell out of what should not be any one's business but the FREE people who are engaged in that business. We are not free, we are serfs. Most of the serfs want to give the government more and more power... then complain if the government uses this power in a manner they do not approve. Poor stupid SOBs....I don't think we'll ever get it right.
Written by kpf on 1/3/2009
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And being as sexual acts are 'licensed' perhaps there is the possibility of a 'pole' tax that can be implemented.... But how to make it fair? Inch by inch? or would it be "stroke by stroke"? How far does an ignorant topic such as this go?
Written by   on 1/3/2009
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And perhaps to take it a step further, shouldn't there be a license for Hillbillies that want to Marry smug scientists? Or is a marriage license to be based merely on sexual acts? Nevada issues licenses to prostitutes, should it be further expanded so that the pimp is to be married to the prostitute for a leagally binding union to be formed?
Written by   on 1/3/2009
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In other words T-Blubbbb, just because two men prefer yanking on each other's twinkies, or two women like rubbing carpets, what is so special, or so significant about those 'acts' that evokes some kind of a nuance about 'marriage'? And just because two men like to yank on each others twinkies, is marriage out of the question because one of them like two men in a twinkie yanking relationship instead of only one? And what if one is cross eyed, and the other is merely cock-eyed? And what if one is a transexual and one is a homosexual, in fact, if a Homosexual man AND a Lesbian woman decide to marry, should they be forced to register as a Homosexual and a Lesbian for licensing purposes?????? I mean after all, if you are going to classify people outside of the accepted norm when it comes to obtaining a license, then I guess you have to run the full gauntlet....
Written by   on 1/3/2009
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And just what do YOU mean when YOU WRITE; YOU Hillbillies? You are a very timid little man after all aren't YOU?
Written by   on 1/3/2009
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Fundamental right? T-blubb, you are delussional at best.... What's next? Because two people of the same sex, even though they are not gay, enjoy/love? collecting stamps, or matchbox toys, or giving children massages should be sanctioned with some kind of 'rights' that are commonly associated with the aspects of a state recognized "marriage"? You are far more ignorant than you let on to be..... It is called incorporation...... Like I wrote, nature abhors a vacuum, and your baseless spews suck more and more and more each time you try to reinforce them with some kind of straw grasping tactic..... People are getting "Hurt"? Oh puhleassssssseeeeeeee.... You are gagging us with your crap...
Written by   on 1/3/2009
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Unfortunately - with our two party system - what is labeled "Conservative views" on matters such as government being fiscally responsible, having the proper balance between ecomonic growth and social safety nets, individual rights, etc. - are grouped toghther with religious viewpoints such as gay marriage. This is most unfortunate as I do not see a tie between - for example - being fiscally conservative and sexual preferences; in reality they are unrelated except for our two party system. If this country is in fact going to become "more like Europe" then I hope we also move towards a more issue-oriented multi-party system politially.
Written by kpf on 1/3/2009
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I'm not foisting my views on anyone - against gay marriage? Don't marry someone of the same sex. Or if you're a church, then don't allow it in your church - but the state cannot deny a fundamental right to people based on centuries-old antiquated biases and religious dogma. Period. If you were really honest with yourselves, you'd admit that I'm not advocating anything that hurts anyone, including you hillbillies. Your views, on the other hand, deny a class of people a fundamental right - your views are hurting REAL PEOPLE right now, so let's not lose sight of that. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/3/2009
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Oh, and the issue of 'Gay' marriage is a dead end subject.... It is incapapble of producing anything on its own merits..... Nature abhors a vacuum...... So suck on T-blub, suck on by all means....
Written by   on 1/3/2009
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Well T-blub, I suppose he likes to 'foist his conservative Christian views on others' for pretty much the same reason you want to foist your liberal smug views on others......
Written by   on 1/3/2009
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Sid, you're clearly not stupid, but your position on gay marriage is. As for the founding fathers, you owe it to yourself to discover just how many of them were not Christians - even folks like Ben Franklin (whom you quoted) did not go to church, and his shenanigans with women would make even David (a.k.a. "John") Vitter blush. Washington hardly ever darkened a church door, and Jefferson was a deist. Our nation's strength is that people are free to practice whatever religion they wish (or no religion at all). Imposing the religious views of one religion on everyone else is therefore un-American. You wouldn't like it if sharia were imposed here, would you? How about if the Mormons became the majority religion and you had to give up coffee, beer or birth control? I know I wouldn't be happy. So why foist your conservative Christian views on others? Just because you perceive them to be (currently) the majority opinion? As Dan Z. and others have pointed out repeatedly in this forum, our Constitution protects minorities in this country from the tyranny of the majority. Iran or Saudi Arabia are places where the majority religion gets to call the shots, Ace. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/3/2009
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My dear liberal pen pal TW, JFK was not a founding father, I thought you knew that but with all the Orwellian rewrite of history...Compared to the Pelosi/Reid democrats, JFK is very conservative. And just because I disagree with you on this subject does not mean that I am stupid and mean spirited, it means I disagree with you. And it warms my heart to know that you watch Fox more than I do and that you know more about Cal Thomas than I do. There is hope for you yet, granted not much, but a little hope nevertheless. I would much rather be thought of as backwards and be right than to go with the flow and be wrong. If you choose to support same sex marriages, go ahead, I won't call you names.
Written by Sid on 1/3/2009
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Oh, I love quote wars! "I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute.... I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish - where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source - where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials.... I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end—where all men and all churches are treated as equal—where every man has the same right to attend or not to attend the church of his choice" - John F. Kennedy. Yep, that would go over really well at the Republican National Convention these days. Let's face it, what used to be the party of the well-heeled is now the party of religious intolerance, scientific illiteracy, and overall ignorance. Bucks County, PA went for Obama this year, for goodness' sakes. Cal Thomas is on Fox all the time, and he's a Christian syndicated columnist. You'd have to live under a rock not to know who he is; either that, or be as well-read as Sarah Palin. And try not to be too arrogant, Sid - your position on gay marriage will be viewed as completely backward and mean-spirited by the vast majority of Americans in less than a generation. The smart ones already think it's that way. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/2/2009
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John Adams -"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God". Samuel Adams - "I conceive we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world . . . that the confusions that are and have been among the nations may be overruled by the promoting and speedily bringing in the holy and happy period when the kingdoms of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and the people willingly bow to the scepter of Him who is the Prince of Peace". Ben Franklin - "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see". And there are more signers of the Declaration that believed this way. Like Thomas Jefferson -"The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses". Okay enough about this subject, put something else up on the board that TW might be right about.
Written by Sid on 1/2/2009
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Cal Thomas is Jewish and he believes that this country was founded on Christian principles or Jewish/Christian principles? No wonder I like him, does he have a show on Fox yet?
Written by Sid on 1/2/2009
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Okay TW, Lincoln was a liberal republican nd JFK would be considered a republican today, soooo what? Politicians today are good at screwing things up(and in Vitter's case...never mind) and padding their retirement. So all that religious mumbo jumbo that is everywhere in Washington, DC, on the buildings, in the writings, is just something the founding fathers put out their to keep the religious right satisfied? Why is it that every single state constitution had "GOD" and references to God in them? And since you are such a Biblical scholar, Old Testament that is, why don't we just go ahead and make polygamy a lawful, moral, and acceptable marriage practice? And KPF, you're standing a little to close to me...I heard thunder in the background.
Written by Sid on 1/2/2009
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What a bunch of silly wabbits….. Sort of reminds me of the story of the tortoise Lonesome George who lives on one of the Galapagos Islands… Last of his species….. Nobody really knows how old he is….. Lots of other tortoise species on the island, but natural reproduction is impossible, because they are not genetically compatible, and Lonesome George doesn’t attempt amorous moves with those other, although similar, different in genetic background tortoises that I am aware of…. So, when Lonesome George goes extinct, well, that is the passing of the last of his kind….. On the flip side of the coin there have been ‘scientific tests’ conducted that showed that when rat populations swelled and overcrowding was the norm where population values are concerned in a ‘confined environment’ male rats for some reason or other seek out and start ‘copulating’ with other male rats……. I had a male mallard duck once… They are known as ‘Drakes’. I incubated him from an egg and raised him… After he grew up, I let him run around with the various chickens, and geese, and turkeys I was raising…. It was funny as hell watching the horny little drake run around and ‘tag’ the hens in the crowd… He was one fast and horny little duck…. No hen was safe from his assault…….. And where the subject of slavery is to be concerned, the trappings have merely changed but in reality we are all a slave to a system or a habit of living in one form or another…. And I would suppose that is the ignorance of science….. It is compelled to try to provide an answer to things that really have no constant at all….. And where religion is unsatisfactory when no answers are availed, people have religion….. And for those that do not find comfort in doctrine or theology, well they search Government to provide the solutions…. And when Government stumbles it relies on a constitution of sorts that was composed by mere mortal men…. So babble on folks, babble on……
Written by   on 1/2/2009
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It's okay Sid, God understands all and forgives all. I am not ashamed of doubting his (or "His" if you prefer) existance. Far better than the inquisition, torture, wars and other evils done "in His name" by some of my fellow humans.
Written by kpf on 1/2/2009
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Sid, do you think Jesus was eating oysters at the Last Supper? True, he chastised the Pharisees all the time, but he did not give up on Jewish Law. He claimed he was fulfilling it. My point remains that there are things we all take from the Bible, and things we all choose to ignore. Who says what you ignore is okay and what I ignore is wrong? But more importantly, since our nation's laws are not built upon the Bible (no matter how many times Cal Thomas writes that they are), this is about American Law and our sense of justice - and not only freedom of religion, but freedom from religion - you cannot impose your religious views on others. I'll say it again - there is NO argument against gay marriage other than a religious one. Finally, the Republican Party in Lincoln's day was the liberal party, while the Democrats were the conservatives. There's no spin necessary. I criticize Democrats all the time in this forum - and I'd rather have an Olympia Snow/Susan Collins-style Republican representing me over many southern Democrats. I'm a liberal first and a Democrat second. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/2/2009
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Dear Intellectually Honest Spin Master Comrade TW, you simply amaze me. Since Jesus did not say "free the slaves" the Bible must be ignored? The Bible as you know is not only a manual for living a good life, it is also a history book. A book that shows where we came from and how we seem to repeat history and never learn. Apparently you are stuck in the Old Testament, are you a history professor? Jesus told the Pharisees that his posse was not working on the Sabbath when they picked corn to eat. Jesus did and said alot to discount the old rules...but there are many "rules" that remain constant throughout the Bible and one of them pertains to the subject. By the way, Abe Lincoln was a big anti slavery guy and mentioned something about freeing the slaves and he was a Republican...and a Christian. Now don't spin this and say that Jesus was a Republican, he was probably an Independent.
Written by Sid on 1/2/2009
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"religious crap, it's just a frigging fairy tale", dude don't stand to close to me will ya.
Written by Sid on 1/2/2009
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Oh hell.... logically, I know we are all agnostics.... now I'm getting paranoid.... I hope God {performed by the late George Burns) doesn't hold a grudge.
Written by kpf on 1/1/2009
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Let me put forth for the secular taxpayer (you know, we who pay for all the crap our government spends money on) three scenarios: 1) a single poor mother has multiple children from one or more men - the tax payer has to pay for rearing these children 2) two gay men (or eight or ten, i don't give a ... hootnany) are married, and bring forth no welfare babies. 3) a poor couple gets married and brings forth many babies they cannot afford to raise, instead letting the taxpayer pay for this. I like number "2" - not only are these gay marriages not bringing forth children the taxpayer has to pay for, they are not creating more Democratic voters. Yes, I much prefer number 2. Also I support a woman's right to choose, especailly if 1) she cannot afford to raise her children and 2) demographics suggest her kids will grow up to vote Democratic. It's time for the Republican Party to give up on this religious crap, it's just a frigging fairy tale to allow the "elite" to control the "masses" anyway. Time for us all to grow up, and take responsibility for ourselves. No magic, no happy endings for everyone, just reality.... reality... it's not such a bad thing really.
Written by kpf on 1/1/2009
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Sid, you're being intellectually dishonest again. I didn't say Jesus didn't bring forth a "New Covenant" - I said he never said word one about freeing the slaves. The Bible says (among other things) that slavery's okay, that you can stone people for adultery (which in Biblical times was a crime only women could commit - men got a free pass), that one could sell one's daughter into prostitution, that eating mollusks or crustaceans, or wearing two different types of cloth at the same time were "abominations" in the eyes of the Lord, etc., etc., etc. So I'm not too impressed with the Biblical writers who thought homosexuality was an "abomination" - I think we've progressed a bit since then (well SOME of us have). TW
Written by Tee Dub on 1/1/2009
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Wow, a nerve has been struck. Oh Great Rubber Chicken help me, I am confused. TW has enlightened me, Jesus did not rebuke the old guard and bring foth the new covenant. Oh my, I must run to watch Hannity to see what this wise sage says on this matter. Maybe I should embrace the logic of the sixties and enjoy free love, drugs, let it be, let it be. Sorry dudes, but I will still choose to follow the teachings of the Bible. A Bible that requires a complete study of both testaments, a book that shows us how history repeats itself and how we as good persons fail. Hey TW I would never try to get you to follow my lead because I am a backsliding Christian who fails daily (but keeps on trying).
Written by Sid on 1/1/2009
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"consider"
Written by not "onside" on 12/31/2008
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Separation of church and state should mean that there are no tax breaks for churches - particularly churches whose ministers speak on matters political (as many Catholic and black churches have). Also, why should married couples get a tax break - where is THAT in the Constitution????? Finally, why not polygamy???? Where is there anything in the Constituton which forbids Polygamy? Isn't that just another "religious" taboo? Also, if the couple is sterile, then what is the problem with siblings getting married. Or for that matter, allowing people to smoke pot who otherwise behave themselves?..... buncha damn control freaks trying to put people away who ARE NOT BOTHERING ANYBODY. Control freaks..... it's that simple. I mean really..... is YOUR LIFE SO TOGETHER that you can seek to control what others do? "Live and Let Live" "Seeking words of wisdom, Let it Be" onside this GREAT TRUTH - - - many people..... NO! MOST PEOPLE.... Do..... not..... want.... to..... be..... like ..... you. Get over yourself already and..... have a great New tear's.
Written by kpf, questions, questions, questions on 12/31/2008
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Who gets to say that gay marriage is wrong? The same book that says slavery is okay, that you can sell your daughter into prostitution, or that eating crustaceans is an "abomination" in the eyes of the Lord? And this is not an Old Testament/New Testament issue, either, so don't hit me with that tired rubber chicken. You show me the passage where Jesus says to free the slaves and I'll go read it eagerly. St. Paul tells slaves to obey their masters. As I've said before, all of us pick and choose what we want to believe from the Bible - ALL OF US. Your picks are just that - YOURS. The other point, which I'll make again, is that your views are religious views, and should not be imposed on anyone else. Our Constitution is there to protect religious minorities from oppressive points of view like yours - yes, Sid, you are the man. Congrats, Bud. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 12/31/2008
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Here we go again TW, it all goes back to moral and ethical rule. Segregation was and is wrong. Gay marriage was and is wrong. You say back in day that the South was for segregation, what about the rest of the country? Here we go again, I may have opened Pandora's box on the interpretation of the Bible again, but what the heck. Yes the Bible has many stories about slavery, but does Jesus condone it? I think not. If we had let the democrats have their way, we may still have had slavery and come to think of it we may still have a form of it with government policies that stifle individual productivity and relieve us of personal accountability.
Written by Sid on 12/31/2008
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I suspect that you're tired of me harping on this riff, but in the 1950s and 1960s the majority of people in the South were for segregation and against integration, Sid. Should integration not have happened? Would that have been just? Would you be happy had "majority rule" held fast? You need to start thinking before you write. TW
Written by Tee Dub on 12/31/2008
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Is that "the will of the people" or "the will of a few"? If the majority says no and only a small per centage say yes, then it's yes?
Written by Sid on 12/30/2008
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Ultimately, the Louisiana ban on gay marriage will be deemed unconstitutional under the Federal Constitution. What Sadow doesn't get is that the will of the people is not always right, or fair, or Constitutional.
Written by Daniel Z on 12/30/2008
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You really can't appreciate the issue of adoption or same-sex marriage until you are a part of it. I married my spouse in CA. I'm originally from Louisiana, moved to Florida, then to Oregon. While up in Oregon, we drove down to CA to get married. It's sad, but had we known that circumstances would have led us to Louisiana, we might have forewent that extremely happy day. The reason: imagine being handed something that changes your life in all respects. When you're married, your actions are seen as united. You don't have to worry about being denied hospital visitation. You can make medical decisions for your spouse, etc. Imagine having that system set up and then yanked out from under you. What's worse, imagine being back home and stumbling with the word "spouse". We literally had to resign ourselves to calling each other "partners" again. Why? Ever been asked a loaded question? Like, "oh, what does your wife do?" The assumption is already made that you are married to a woman. It's never meant out of harm. It's just something everyone does. I would hope people would realize that same-sex marriage has been legal for several years now in MA; that you might meet up with someone in that marriage. Imagine being given the respect of marriage, then being tossed into fearful situations...like not talking about your family for fear of being fired just because they will immediately assume your sexual orientation. Being back in South Louisiana, I was reminded that we are good people here. Cajun, creoles, transplants...all good people with good hearts. I just wish it would be easier.
Written by atty79 on 12/30/2008
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This has nothing to do with "frying fish" aside from making sure that our asses don't get burned..... And as far as women joining the military goes, it is a sorry ass example of any society that would send their women off to fight their wars for them...... And if you want to get on the cutting edge of change, I would like to suggest that first you get some STRONGCONCRETE style intestional fortitude.... And while you are at it, put the black rah-rah-siskoomba back in the trunk where it belongs.... It is sooooooooooooooooooooo outdated and outlandish.... Sort of in the same fasion as platform shoes and disco is....... Take your own advice and get progressive you moron....
Written by   on 12/30/2008
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Put this in your scrap book for your grandchildren.........or hopefully just your children. This is going to be like the debate on women and black people being able to vote..............people will look back and think their ancestors arcaic. MOST OF OUR GREAT GREAT GRANDFATHERS WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT WOMEN AND BLACKS COULD JOIN THE ARMY, VOTE, EVEN BECOME PRESIDENT..........WE HAVE BIGGER FISH TO FRY, LET HOMOSEXUALS GET MARRIED AND BE ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF CHANGE INSTEAD OF REGRESSION.........WHEN THEY LOOK BACK LOUISIANA WILL BE SEEN AS.......PROGRESSIVE....A TERM NEVER NEVER NEVER USED WITH THIS STATE
Written by WOMEN AND BLACKS VOTING??? NEVER!!! on 12/30/2008
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..........."""""Because of this ruling, regarding the welfare of the child (the men argued in their court briefing health care benefits could be denied relative to the child) this same-sex union would have equal footing with constitutional marriage. It’s a back door way of forcing benefits associated with marriage to be granted to same sex pairs, contravening the Constitution""""""".......... I pretty much seriously doubt it, all Louisiana has to do is refuse to recognize their marriage... For instance, a person can grow marijuana in California for 'personal' use.... I don't know, I guess it is a small plant or something... Well just because that person can do so in California, it does not mean that person can bring its marijuana they grew in California here to Louisiana [legally that is], nor does it mean that just because that person moves from California to Louisiana, and growing marijuana is part of that person's 'culture', that person can continue growing its 'herb' here either..... I think there are definite lapses of reasoning being shown here in Louisiana coupled with unfounded nags, and wants absent of the basis for need...... Perhaps what a lot of folks here in Louisiana need to do is smoke a fat blunt and attempt to work through their disillusionments... Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!
Written by   on 12/30/2008
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