For the past ten years, a portrait of Jesus Christ in the Slidell City Court created no controversy. It had been hanging in the lobby of the courthouse ever since it was originally constructed in 1997. In that time, not one person had complained to court officials.
Despite the lack of controversy, the Louisiana ACLU decided to take action and sent a demand letter to the court to remove the portrait because “it violates the Establishment Clause, which holds that church and state must remain separate.”
What is interesting is that the ACLU did not give court officials time to take action or even investigate the matter; they notified the court after first alerting the local and national media, effectively making this a publicity stunt. According to Slidell City Court Judge Jim Lamz, the ACLU is “not interested so much in resolution, but in confrontation and publicity.”
The ACLU has plenty of issues it could be pursuing, but it apparently is trying to create a controversy where none had existed. As the Slidell Court tries to rebuild post-Katrina, it now has to deal with this issue. Lamz says that he has received inquires from national news outlets as the ACLU pursues this “publicity stunt,” hampering his ability to perform his important as City Court Judge.
In my view, since the portrait of Jesus has not been a problem for the Slidell community, it should not be removed. It reflects the will and desires of the vast majority of Slidell residents who are people who follow Christianity and hold Christian values. Such public support does not matter to Kate Schwartzmann of the ACLU, who wants the portrait removed because “every person entering the courthouse is subjected to it. Moreover, as an admonition hanging in a court of law, it clearly gives the impression that only believers in the law of Jesus Christ will receive justice in that courthouse.” Of course that statement is ridiculous, for nowhere is it written or communicated in any fashion that only Christians will be able to receive justice in the Slidell City Court. In fact, as people use the courthouse, it is beneficial to see a portrait of Jesus. It might help lawbreakers turn their lives around.
Now the ACLU will file a lawsuit since they gave court officials no warning or time to investigate the matter. It is a ridiculous waste of time, creating a controversy where none existed, diverting time and attention away from more important matters. However, such publicity seeking tactics are par for the course for the ACLU.
Jeff Crouere is a native of New Orleans, LA and he is the host of a Louisiana based program, “Ringside Politics,” which airs at 8:30 p.m. Fri. and 10:00 p.m. Sun. on WLAE-TV 32, a PBS station, and Noon till 2 p.m. weekdays on several Louisiana radio stations. For more information, visit his web site at www.ringsidepolitics.com. E-mail him at jeff@ringsidepolitics.com.
I did some checking into on the issue of church,and state since it has been brought up. Wall of separation
Thomas Jefferson's responce,date January 1, 1802 concurs with the Danbury Baptist's views on religious liberty,and the accompanying separation of civil government from concerns of religious doctrine,and practice. Quoting the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, he writes! I contemplated with sovereign revernce that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respectin an astablishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof thus building a wall of separation between church,and state.
Written by Ben
on 7/4/2007
JT: According to Alito during his confirmation hearings, the rulings of previous courts are "settled law". Unfortunately, Alito seems to have lied in his confirmation hearings. I am sure that if this case goes to the Supreme Court that our newly formed right wing activist court will vote in support of those who wish to elevate Christianity as "top" religion in the eyes of the court. The Mayor of Slidell did say that I had some good points in my discussion with him on the radio this morning. Unfortunately, I could not get him to accept the last 5 words in the pledge "liberty and justice for all">
Written by Dan
on 7/2/2007
I'm done with this. It's a waist of my time....
Written by TW
on 6/27/2007
OK, I suppose that there's another "TW" posting here now - now I'm getting a dose of what "Sharon" experienced on another thread. I'm not going to add any more posts to this thread, so any and all inanity you see from "TW" is from said other person. Au revoir mes amis et tous les autres.
Written by TW
on 6/27/2007
TW...it is waste of time...not "waist". I guess Phd programs don't require correct spelling.
Written by LT
on 6/27/2007
Very impressive, the "majority rules" comments. Majority rules is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner. That's why we have a constitution and these pesky rights and safeguards. Wonder what the "majority" would say if, with public funds, a portrait of the last Jina was placed in the courthouse?
Written by WDS
on 6/27/2007
Since the court uses the Constitution and law books to come up with verdicts in cases, and not the bible, then Jesus should have nothing to do with the court. If you believe in Jesus then you would believe that his judgement comes at the end of days, and not in the form of a governmental court room.
And as a jewish person, why should i feel like i would be able to seek justice in a court of law that has a picture of Jesus with the words "To know peace, obey these laws" under it. So what, in order to know peace I have to follow Jesus?
Written by Dan
on 6/27/2007
WDS. Our constitution is interpreted simply by a ruling by the MAJORITY of the justices. The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, but separation of church and state is simply an interpretation of the Establishment clause. This interpretation could be interpreted differently by any sitting group of justices.
Written by jt
on 6/27/2007
OH! PLEASE!!!! it is a WASTE of time!!!
Written by TW
on 6/27/2007
TW - I'm going to leave you with something: 1). You enjoy the wonderful freedoms which this great country of ours has to offer, because of Patriots & Warriors such as me, "Ole Jarhead", and many like us. 2). Pacifists created the Adolf Hitlers of the world, then we Warriors had to spill our blood to destroy them; 3). "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, so sayeth the Lord"; 4). The JIHAD terrorists love the pacifists - they fear the warriors of the world.; 5). Engineers! wow, you actually believe what you wrote about them? If it wasn't for engineers, you wouldn't be sending all of those "blogs" on your computer; there would be no airplanes, automobiles, ships, spacecraft, buildings, highways, hospitals, schools, watches & clocks, plumbing, air conditioning, stoves, refrigerators, HD televisions, stereo systems, cell phones, and the biological research equipment which is a large part of your life........and on, and on! Now that you have received Sermon No. 1,658, is it possible that you can just take a big deep breath and relax? You say that you possess a Phd? Isn't it about time that you put that to good use, rather than excoriate us "conservatives"? I have earned the position of - "retiree", and will dedicate myself to help others such as you. If you will agree to the elimination of stinging remarks on this message board, so will I. However, if you don't, and insist on continuing your "tirades", then I will strap on my combat gear, and we engage once again - your decision. PATRIOT WARRIOR.
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/26/2007
TW - you can call me a lot of things, but dumb isn't one of them - I earned a Masters of Engineering from Texas A & M. I also have been married for more than 40 years, have three children, and five grand children. I volunteer at Children's Hospital on weekends, and yes, I regularly attend church, and try and respect God's Law. In addition, I served two tours of duty as a USMC Force Recon in Vietnam. However, it is complete and total idiots such as you TW, that raise my blood pressure! Talk about a fool? You take the cake. I'll bet even money that you have never been married, or have a girl friend. I still pray for you however. PATRIOT WARRIOR.
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/26/2007
Man, you take the cake. What does being married have to do with how intelligent one is? Does that make any sense to you at all? It's complete gibberish. I'm glad you have a Master's degree - but you do admit that in general engineers don't really receive a very broad education - it's rather focused on a very small portion of human knowledge. You miss out on things like the fact that "grandchildren" (like "girlfriend") is one word, for example. And I've been married for seven years, and have two kids, although I don't see its relevance to the current discussion. I also have a Master's Degree and a Ph.D. in a biological science, and I have a solid international reputation in my field, so apparently I am not "a complete and total idiot" as you maintain. And in terms of Christianity, just how does your catchphrase "PEACE THROUGH FIREPOWER" fit into the Sermon on the Mount? "Blessed are those you smite you with superior weaponry?" I don't seem to recall that one. Perhaps all those years in Sunday School were wasted on me after all.
Written by TW
on 6/26/2007
"Blessed are those WHO smite you with superior weaponry" - that's what I meant to write.
Written by TW
on 6/26/2007
TW....just read what you have written. The vile, hateful things....you have written...wow. I will admit that your initial rantings pissed me off at first...that was my fault. You're just not worth getting upset over. I am glad that your educated, married and all the good that comes with it. I am sorry that you seem that me trying to help..and getting shot at was something that made you think that I was patting myself on the back. I apologize for helping...it won't happen again. Just get some help...I mean that sincerely. I would hate to see you hurt yourself or any of your loved ones.
Written by LT
on 6/26/2007
LT, what gives? What exactly is so vile and hateful about what I've written? I just don't understand it. Here's the bottom line: I don't believe your story about being in New Orleans, getting shot at, right after Katrina. Plain and simple. I think you're making it up. You said you were here, and then you said you were watching it on television. Well, guess what, you couldn't do both, because there WAS no television in New Orleans right after the storm. There's no hate there, no bitterness, just a simple observation. And when people write stupid stuff here, then guess what? I call it stupid. Simple. No hate necessary. If I write something stupid, I expect that somebody will point it out. That's what happens here. I've admitted that I've messed up - once when "jackamo" called me on something, and more than once when "Ole Jarhead" has called me on something. And I even agree with some of you right-wing folks sometimes, including Jeff Crouere and even, yes, "Patriot Warrior"! Some of you right wing guys have some REALLY thin skins. I mean, toughen up a bit. Cripes.
Written by TW
on 6/26/2007
Wait, let me get this straight. I call "Patriot Warrior" dumb because he can't understand a simple analogy, and suddenly I'm mentally ill? I mean LT, have you read the testosterone-laden rants of "Patriot Warrior"? Even if you agree with him politically, do you really think he's stable? I guess you're still mad about me nicknaming you "Viola Boy" (which I dropped by the way), or by pointing out inconsistencies in your "I was in New Orleans getting shot at right after Katrina" story. You fellas keep patting yourselves on the back and thinking I'm the mentally unstable one. Crikey.
Written by TW
on 6/26/2007
I'm not a bit a surprised about the double standards. ACLU has a problem with a picture of Jesus,and yet the KORAN was handle with white gloves.
Written by TW
on 6/26/2007
Okay, okay, "Patriot Warrior" - it's obvious that I was a bit too harsh to engineers. Sorry to any and all engineers who read this blog. In general, you're good guys (and gals) and most of you do very important work, and I shouldn't have belittled your profession. On a different issue, however, I would respectfully ask that "Patriot Warrior" and those who agree with him read the following: http://redstateson.blogspot.com/2006/01/freedom-granted-freedom-won.html
It makes a very important point much better than I ever could.
Written by TW
on 6/26/2007
Dr. "TW" - Well, you have given me your response regarding "stinging remarks", etc., by not agreeing to a "truce"! Let the games continue!! PATRIOT WARRIOR.
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/26/2007
If the ACLU has such a problem with the picture of Jesus being hung up in a court house,then why aren't crying over the the support court building in Washington D.C. that has Moses,and the Ten Commandments. I support military!!!! Thank You all for your service. You are the best of the best
Written by TW
on 6/26/2007
Sorry I meant supreme court building in Washington D.C.
Written by TW
on 6/26/2007
Now hold on there, some joker is pretending to be me, with this Supreme Court thing? That's not very nice, guys. You know better.
Written by TW
on 6/26/2007
Bottom line...TW. You're just not that important in the scheme of things. You say you have a Phd...cool. Just realize...that I have read and shared all your postings...what I think or that you should care shouldn't matter to you. But hhen I read what you have written...you do need to get some sort of help. I realize that people can handle some stress better than others. Some need a good support group...and those people need to find one. As far as a person's education...bring it on...I have a BBA...and graduated just barely. So there TW...you are the smarter of us. I hope you can gather some happiness from that. If anyone in here knows TW...get him some help. Keep in mind folks...this blog is recess...the cartoon before the movie. I mean come on...step back...relax people.
Written by LT
on 6/26/2007
DOWN! with the ACLU!!!!! Don't they have anything,elso better to do? Guess not.
Written by BD
on 6/26/2007
NO! WHERE! in the bible does it say anything about church state. Praise the lord!!! that the picture of Jesus was,and is permited to stay up.
Written by ED
on 6/25/2007
" . . .portrait of Jesus Christ in the Slidell City Court created no controversy."
The controversy was created the moment the portrait was put up. Whether it was put up yesterday or 200 hundred years ago, the controversy is, as per our US Constitution, that religion has no place in our courts of law.
Judge Lamz claims the ACLU to be concocting this as a publicity stunt. Actually, hanging images on walls is a matter of publicity. Hanging an image of Jesus on display is a publicity stunt. If not for publicity why would any image be posted anywhere? If not trying to publicize Jesus what other reason would the judge have for hanging such a portrait on the courts wall?
"In fact, as people use the courthouse, it is beneficial to see a portrait of Jesus. It might help lawbreakers turn their lives around."
Huh? Considering that 70% to 80% of US citizens identify with the Christian religion, who is it that will benefit from seeing a portrait of Jesus? Non-Christians? Are you saying that the un-converted may convert to Christianity and not break the law anymore? The image is there to convert law breakers to Christianity?
Sounds like you're talking in circles!
Written by James Veillon
on 6/25/2007
It is obvious that TW's stay in the Mental Hospital didn't do him much good.
Written by LT
on 6/25/2007
TO: JV - then have the word "GOD" removed from the US Congress, the US Supreme Court, from all US currencies, out of the oaths, bibles used for swearing ins, and on, and on, and on!! FYI - the minority does not rule, in spite of your, and others efforts to do so. This nation was founded on christian principles and values , not anarchism! Russia, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, China, North Korea, and many other anarchistic countries would be very happy to have you join their ranks!. "GOD BLESS AMERICA". PATRIOT WARRIOPR
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/25/2007
LT - there is absolutely no way that you could allow yourself to get upset with - "poor, under loved, and neglected"...TW! He has used filthy language abbreviations, and very weak responses, such as references to one not being able to tie their shoes! What in GOD's name has happened to this poor creature? When an individual has "cracked under the strain", we can only hope and "pray" for him, now in his time of need. I only wish, that I as a human being could help him - GOD knows, he needs all the help that he can get! It's just pitiful!. PATRIOT WARRIOR.
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/25/2007
Patriot Warrior...I just worry about TW. He could hurt himself or someone else. The guy seems to have lost his grasp on reality. He and I get into it but I consider this blog recess during the school day. I mean really...please this blog is the cartoon before the movie. I was kidding about the mental health remark. But given his downward spiral...he needs to get help.
Written by LT
on 6/25/2007
TO: JT - YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! PATIENCE & UNDERSTANDING APPLIES TO THIS SITUATION! LET'S "PRAY" THAT OUR FRIEND TW WILL FIND EVERLASTING PEACE AND HAPPINESS. SINCERELY, PATRIOT WARRIOR.
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/25/2007
The Constitution includes no prohibition of this. Indeed, if memory serves, it says something like no law shall be made respecting religion NOR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.
It would appear that the Slidell court is providing for freedom of expression, even for athiests: they believe in nothing, so there is nothing in the way of statuary or pictorals in the court for them! I am here working from the premise that the picture of Christ in the court's lobby was NOT paid for using taxpayer dollars--if it was paid for by the taxpayers, then that should not have occurred. If Muslims or Buddists or Jews or whomever wish to have some symbol of their religion in the courthouse, perhaps they should pay for the religious iconography and present it to the court for display to prove its equal opportunity bona fides. If I were an accused standing before the Judge, however, I should certainly prefer that judge to be guided by the principles of Christian charity in his/her handling of my sentence rather than in a blind adherence to some code such as Sharia law of a belief in nothing at all.
Written by ed dwyer
on 6/25/2007
Members of minority religions like myself should reasonably expect equal treatment under the law. As Bob Marley said, "I and I do not expect to be justified by the laws of men." Laws made by fallible man do not benefit by cloaking themselves in the trappings of divinity. Democracy should be about the protection of minorities of all stripes, political, religous, or whatever, not the enforcement of a tyranny of the majority.
Written by Larry W. Nieman
on 6/24/2007
ACLU, please! Have them go down to Corpus Cristi, the "Body of Christ" and tell them to change their name and history. I think the good people of Corpus Cristi may just tell them to go to hell. Or, maybe they would like to change the name of Los Angeles, "The Angels" or name any other part of our history. What they don't get is that Christianity is part of us, like it or not.
Written by Tom
on 6/24/2007
"TW - Are you referring to Christianity as being backward, and in the "minority"? You are dead wrong! We're talking about this country, not other religions around the world. I think that you are referring to the minority religion - "ATHEISM"! GOD BLESS AMERICA. PATRIOT WARRIOR." Just a quick question, Patriot Warrior, can you tie your own shoes?
Written by TW
on 6/23/2007
What the supposed Christian majority who isn't having a problem with this thinks is totally irrelevant. Any follower of any religion and even those who choose not to follow a particular religion at all should be equal in the eyes of the law, period, whether they're a minority or not. Thus, the whole defense of this in this article is specious.
The most that someone who defends this can say is that it is relatively harmless, given that the Supreme Court has not disallowed emblems and sayings such as "In God We Trust" on money.
Is this the same? It isn't, and the reason it isn't is precisely that in a court of law there simply must be emphasis on the concept of everyone being the same in the eyes of the law. Any hint, however slight, that maybe, just maybe, Christians are getting special treatment is a step toward exactly that kind of environment in, for example, Iran or Afghanistan, which our nation is supposed to be standing up against.
Written by Richard P.
on 6/23/2007
HELLO KEEP THE PICTURE UP LIZ
Written by LIZZIE ROOT
on 6/23/2007
We sure didn't see any hell raised by the ACLU when footbaths for Muslims were installed in an airport and in a college in Michigan. Islamic ritual calls for men (women too?) to wash their feet before praying. Fine, but don't install those footbaths at TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE!! When is the ACLU going to get the gonads to treat ALL religions equally? It wants to tear down a picture of Jesus that's been hanging in the Slidell courthouse for years, even though no one has complained about it, but they're too scared to dare tell the Muslim community to pay for having their own footbaths installed! Damn nerve on the ACLU's part but what else is new?
Written by Deon
on 6/23/2007
I think it should be taken down because it is illegal. There is no question about that. Our Supreme Court has found such actions illegal on many occasions.
In the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet (1994), the majority of the court joined Justice David Souter's opinion, which stated that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."
Your reasoning is also flawed. Just because no one complained about something before now does not mean that the status quo was fair, just, or legal. Many people who have not complained about the lack of separation of church and state in many government agencies are currently fed up with the extreme religiosity of our federal government and are now complaining. Federal funding of faith-based organizations is just as wrong today as when the constitution was written.
Also - your "Buzz Right Back" button has "Right" spelled incorrectly.
Written by David Schultz
on 6/22/2007
To B. E. Orgeron:
Hitler, was, of course, a Christian. Remember "Gott Mit Uns" on every German belt buckle?
Your post is so full of historical and legal errors, I can't begin to respond, so I won't waste my time.
Written by J. Michael Malec
on 6/22/2007
As a society we have come to expect our justice system to be blind and impartial. Religious beliefs, polticial ideology, prejudice, racism - none of those things has any place in a court. A judge can believe whatever he/she wants, so long as there is no appearance of partiality when they have the robes on. A portrait of Jesus on the wall implies that God's law will be respected in this building. No law but US law should be applied in a courtroom. After all, according to the Catholic version of the 10 Commandments, it is perfectly legal (most of the time) to break all but 2 commandments (murder and steal being those 2).
Written by Conservative Professor
on 6/22/2007
Judicial interpretation of the Constitution changes as the makeup of the Court changes.
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
What does the 14th Amendment have to do with this discussion?
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
Amendment 1: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The first ten words of the First Amendment are pretty clear to me - there is no state religion in the United States of America. So JT, there is your separation of church and state. Your argument is analagous to the following: "Where in the Constitution does it say we have an 'Electoral College'? - I can't find those two words together anywhere in the Constitution!" Also, to three of you: JT, "Off his Meds" Orgeron, and Sharon - all of you need to seriously consider how you'd feel in the situation I laid out for you earlier - wherein the mainstream religion of the United States is Scientology, and you all are participating in that "ancient, backward, minority" religion known as Christianity. Sharon intimates to me that she thinks it's hunky dory to have a portrait of ole "L Ron" at the courthouse, but I doubt that's how she really feels. How would you like it if your kids were subjected to Scientology prayers every morning? As Linda Santi notes, the Constituion protects us from the "tyranny of the majority." And JT, you don't think kids are brainwashed at these so-called (usually segregated) "Christian Academies" where they put the "Fun" in "Fundamentalist Dogma"? (apologies to Matt Groenig for stealing that jewel). Why, they teach them such falsehoods as "All of the Founding Fathers were Christian" and "The earth is only 6000 years old, and there were dinosaurs and unicorns at the time of the Biblical Flood." Cut us all some slack, y'all.
Written by TW
on 6/22/2007
TW. That is your interpretation of the amendment. In addition, answer the question and find those words. Where is the law that Congress made to prevent a picture of Jesus in the Slidell court? If the SC, in this era has a different interpretation, will you accept their view?
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
sigh.
Written by TW
on 6/22/2007
Amen B.E. Orgeron. Bring back Civics taught by unbiased teachers. Our children are being programmed and brainwashed using taxpayer money.
Written by Sharon
on 6/22/2007
Does every member of the aclu use debit or credit cards in an effort to boycott using paper money. Surely, they don't acquiesce to the print on our dollars.
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
The ACLU should put a sock in it. If you don't want to look at Jesus Christ then close your eyes while passing. For those who don't want to look at Jesus Christ then whose face do they hope to see when they die. The Devil? I am so sick of the ACLU trying to pass their beliefs on to others. Where are my rights and that of others that want their kids to pray in school, who want to pray and say the pledge at sporting events? As I said before if you don't believe and don't want to participate then sit down and shut up. I'm sure more people want these things than those that don't. Why don't we have some orginizations to speak up for us and shut the ACLU up?
Written by dr
on 6/22/2007
On US currency, it states - "IN GOD WE TRUST". In the US congress each session day, a prayer is given. Everywhere in Washington, DC, the name - "GOD" is displayed on government buildings, including the US Supreme Court. When the incoming US Presidents, members of congress, federal judges, and on, and on, are sworn in, a "BIBLE" is used!! Joe Cook, and the ACLU are anti-christ, anti-religion, period. They are predominately atheists! Here again, double standards prevail! GOD BLESS AMERICA......PATRIOT WARRIOR.
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/22/2007
Any tolerant non-Christian would walk past a picture of Jesus and view it as just another picture of a man. It is irrelevant and meaningless to them. Unfortunately, there are some who are filled with HATE and looking for publicity. The message in this is clear; BIGOTRY IS ALIVE AND WELL IN OUR COUNTRY.
Written by Nola Boy
on 6/22/2007
A Court is no place for religious pictures. How do you think a nonChristian feels when he or she walks into a court and sees Jesus prominently displayed? Would you feel the same if it were a Star of David or words from the Koran? Better yet, let's put a picture of Buddha or Shiva or maybe even a Wiccan symbol. Maybe then we can talk about leaving Jesus on the wall.
Written by Kathleen
on 6/22/2007
Not all children. Just children in public schools!!!!!
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
Can anyone find the term 'SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE' in any CONSTITUTION?
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
Ooops. Didn't get my name in. In God We Trust, One Nation Under God, etc. All this is being pushed to the rear in our PC world. WE are the worse off for it IMHO.
Written by Sharon
on 6/22/2007
Thus, spoke Zarathustra. This is another neo-liberal and ultra-conservative issue that the Rove machine puts in the minds of poor unwitting folks like JT. It's easier if daddy rove does the thinking for me and I can spew out his putrid regurgitations even though I myself was not competent or committed enough to stay in law school.
This is such a non-issue like abortion. The logic is circular and intended to get us using our brain power against that real threats to our liberty and economy. Meanwhile Shaw, Textron, Enron, Exxon, ICF, Haliburton and other "capiltalist" exert their influence over "our" elected officials and make oodles of tax payer money that could go to providing healthcare to poor women and children, universal drug coverage for children. Instead we get wars. War on Poverty. War on drugs. War in Iraq. Well people are still poor, most of the affluent white folks I know have access to drugs as they please, and we spend over $100B per month in Iraq while the federal government ignores their responsibilities to the American taxpayer.
The question isn't whether the Constitution says "Separation of church and state" or if the judicial system has amassed a role in our government that you don't agree with, but what are you doing to keep our elected representatives honest. The state has spent $29.7B this year alone with little or no real investment in the state. They all tout "economic development" by building convention centers and roads, but when there is no one to populate our state these will remain monuments to our largesse.
So, I'm sure you will continue in this vein of reasoning. Argue over a god that may or may not exist, but every moment you spend piddling on that issue is a moment away from the true issues of recovery and society that we should be discussing.
I'll leave you with Romans 1:11 "It is up to the strongest of us to care for the weakest amongst us. And, not to please himself."
Written by God is Dead
on 6/22/2007
The Fourteenth Amendment extends the Bill of Rights, and indeed the entire Consitution to the States. You may have heard that there was a war between the state a while back and amendments 13,14 & 15 were added as a result. Do your homework before you write something.
Written by J. Michael Malec
on 6/22/2007
J. Michael Malec, James Hardy,
I suggest that you two people, and the ACLU (atheist, communist, and liberal’s union) actually read the United States Constitution. NO WHERE does it ever say “Separation of Church and state!”
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”
That is all the Constitution ever says about religion. “CONGRESS” is NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, nor is it THE STATE GOVERNMENT! This is a local matter, and has nothing to do with the Federal Government! If a state, county, or parish want a monument to Buda then it is up to the people of that area, and NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! You and the ACLU can go goose step along with the dregs of history such as Hitler!
I also suggest you read the 10th Amendment of the Constitution!
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Again, there is NOTHING in the Constitution stopping an area from displaying any religious symbol that they (the people of that area) wish to have! This power IS NOT given to the Federal Government, and is the right of the states, or the people of that state!
You people are so brain washed by government NAZI schools that you have no idea of what this country was founded on. If the Founder Fathers were alive today Mr. Malec, and Mr. Hardy they would slap you in the face!
Written by B. E. Orgeron
on 6/22/2007
"In fact, as people use the courthouse, it is beneficial to see a portrait of L. Ron Hubbard. It might help lawbreakers turn their lives around." (My guess is that most don't even know who this man is. So how can it be offensive?)
TW I could not agree more. I think that seeing the 10 Commandments when they walk in might cause some pause as well. The authors of Our Constitution used their moral beliefs to assist them. I think in many ways that we would all be better off if "Congress shall make no law" would be taken more seriously.
Written by
on 6/22/2007
Here is the beginning of the first sentence of the Preamble of the LA Constitution. "We, the people of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God..."
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
The U.S. Constitution says, "Congress shall make no law..." So if you want to chastise the author, do your homework first. The 'Supremes' get involved in these matters, but it truly is not their fight.
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
Oh Geeze James. The ACLU should be busy persuing more important abuses? Well duh. This is our country. The ACLU is busy taking pictures, crosses, and Ten Commandments down everywhere. At the same time they are busy making sure that Muslims have "foot baths", special rooms for prayer, and time off for prayer in our public areas (even our schools). They are busy making sure that Muslims have their "rights" protected and are not offened at the same time they are trampling on our "rights" and offending us in every way possible. In all my years in school we said the Pledge and started our day with prayer. No one was pulled to their feet or forced to join us. Now we have to allow Muslim prayers but no Christian ones. Muslim Call to prayer is protected while in some areas Church Bells are forbidden. It is alright for Bill and Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, and Jesse Jackson to make political speeches in Churches but if a priest states that anyone voting for someone who advocates abortion contributes to those abortions (this happened in Mississippi in 2000)the Church is threatened with loss of its tax exempt status. The ACLU is not for equal rights but for special rights for some at the expense of others.
Written by Sharon
on 6/22/2007
Jeff, I've known you for years, and although we disagree on many issues, you have always had my respect. In light of that, I can't believe that you wrote a column expressing disrespect for the First Amendment. This is an extemely simple case of govenmental endoresement not only of religion, but a specific religion, in of all places a courthouse, where the rule of law is supposed to be supreme. For anyone who believes in our Consitituion, there is no possiblity of any position except that this is wrong.
Written by J. Michael Malec
on 6/22/2007
"It reflects the will and desires of the vast majority of Slidell residents who are people who follow Christianity and hold Christian values."
Precisely what constitutional protections are about - protecting minority opinions from majority rule.
In other words, I disagree with your thoughts on the Slidell issue; i.e., display of a particular faith-discipline's diety in a government space. The fact that it happens to be the diety of the majority of St. Tammany residents makes it more egregious, not less.
Practicing Catholic and U.S. Constitution Fan,
Linda Santi
Written by Linda Santi
on 6/22/2007
Jeff:
As a friend I respect your point of view but it happens to be wrong in this case.....The US Constitution trumps all of the issues raised in your column and this supremely clear document has been protecting our rights since 1789......But set aside the purely legal issues for a moment; What if a Muslim man or Jewish woman presents themselves in Slidell court expecting to be treated fairly and "equal in the eyes of the law." By displaying a potrait of Jesus the court makes a clear statement of their religious orientation. There is no justification for such percieved bias to be incorporated into any public instituion but especially not a court of law. I suspect the reason that this potrait has been in place for 10 years without complaint is exactly because the ACLU has been actively pursueing even more agregious threats to our Constituional rights.....I am not a member of the ACLU but we all should appreciate their zeal with which they pursue their mission because it protects those things in this country we hold most dear.
Written by James Hardy
on 6/22/2007
The pertinent part of the Fourteenth amendment says,
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
This sentence extends the First Amendment protections to the states, even Louisiana.
Written by J. Michael Malec
on 6/22/2007
That's your homework Mr. Malec. What we have is judicial interpretation.
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
BAYOUBUZZ -Are you manipulating these comments? I hope not! PATRIOT WARRIOR.
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/22/2007
Maybe it is just a picture someone likes.Do we want the aclu getting involved with art.If i find two men in a picture offensive can i sue to have someone remove that.
Written by Susan
on 6/22/2007
Mr. Crouere neglects to mention WLAE is not just a PBS station; it's financed substantially if not owned by Catholics and before moving out of the state, I had occasion to complain since I had reason to nickname it "The Catholic Hour" because of its religious bias.
When neoconservatives begin with "What is interesting", I always know that their spin is going to follow.
The law is separation of church and state and I wonder why breaking the law (apparently for a long period) requires the ACLU to coddle those who apparently consider themselves above it.
I'm sure the picture is a nice one; it belongs in a church.
Written by Steve Voelkel
on 6/22/2007
To k. Ortego: The ACLU sent a veto request to Governor Blanco yesterday on the budget items appropriating public funds to churches and religious groups that you refer to. We shall see what she does.
Written by J. Michael Malec
on 6/22/2007
I am currently a resident of Slidell. How do I petition to get pictures of Mohammed, Buddha, and Vishnu into that courthouse?
Written by swampwiz
on 6/22/2007
Hey! Does anybody moderate this thing? It appears somebody calling themself PHE has made a death threat.
Written by
on 6/22/2007
It really does not matter because it is probably an inaccurate portrait anyway.Futhermore where did our laws come from if not from God, the first judge and lawmaker.Wake up aclu,would it mean every judge has to remove portraits of their parents from off their desks or in their chambers.Seeing their parents made them and are appreciated by public display how much more God?
Written by Minister Jason Rose
on 6/22/2007
Its time to get rid of the ACLU who is always at the center of controversy and not once have I ever seen them take the side of any conservative values. I think we need an old time Brazilian Assasination Squad to rid ourselves of these communists who want to portray themselves as patriots of American rights.
PHE
Written by PHE
on 6/22/2007
"not one person had complained to court officials."
Jeff, what does that prove? NOTHING. It is either Constitutional or not. This is not a popularity contest, this is about Constitutional rights.
Next time there's a wife-beating case before the court, I want you to tell the judge, "But your Honor, they were married for ten years and she never complained about getting smacked around before." Or if there's an Internet child porn case, I want you to write a column that says, "But this guy has been enjoying photos of under-age sex for ten years and nobody ever complained about what he was doing before."
Written by Tim
on 6/22/2007
Why doesn't the ACLU file suit or send a demand letter to our wonderful legislature thats giving hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars to numerous churches. Maybe the ACLU lobbists are a little too comfortable with our reps in Baton Rouge. Can't mess with the status quo.
Written by k. Ortego
on 6/22/2007
Hey DAR, yepper, a lot of criminals do find Allah in prison.
Written by TW
on 6/22/2007
"For the past ten years, a portrait of L. Ron Hubbard in the Slidell City Court created no controversy. It had been hanging in the lobby of the courthouse ever since it was originally constructed in 1997. In that time, not one person had complained to court officials.
Despite the lack of controversy, the Louisiana ACLU decided to take action and sent a demand letter to the court to remove the portrait because 'it violates the Establishment Clause, which holds that church and state must remain separate.'
What is interesting is that the ACLU did not give court officials time to take action or even investigate the matter; they notified the court after first alerting the local and national media, effectively making this a publicity stunt. According to Slidell City Court Judge Jim Lamz, the ACLU is 'not interested so much in resolution, but in confrontation and publicity.'....
In my view, since the portrait of L. Rob Hubbard has not been a problem for the Slidell community, it should not be removed. It reflects the will and desires of the vast majority of Slidell residents who are people who follow Scientology and hold Scientological values. Such public support does not matter to Kate Schwartzmann of the ACLU, who wants the portrait removed because 'every person entering the courthouse is subjected to it. Moreover, as an admonition hanging in a court of law, it clearly gives the impression that only believers in the law of L. Ron Hubbard will receive justice in that courthouse.' Of course that statement is ridiculous, for nowhere is it written or communicated in any fashion that only Scientologists will be able to receive justice in the Slidell City Court. In fact, as people use the courthouse, it is beneficial to see a portrait of L. Ron Hubbard. It might help lawbreakers turn their lives around."
Written by TW
on 6/22/2007
Hi Jeff! I met you last week at Martha Laque's house in Luling. I would like to run this on our editorial page. Let me know if it's ok and send a pic to go with it!
annt@heraldguide.com
Thanks,
Ann
Written by Ann Taylor
on 6/22/2007
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that a vast majority of criminals once they reach a jail cell they find the Lord? So what difference does it make to have a picture of CHRIST in the Halls of Justice. Aren't their enough cases on the dockets without adding another foolish law suit? To the ACLU and it's followers CRAWL BACK UNDER THE ROCK YOU CAME FROM. GOD BLESS AMERICA, and as Toby Keith said it " IN AMERICA IN GOD WE STILL TRUST.
Written by DAR
on 6/22/2007
TW - Are you referring to Christianity as being backward, and in the "minority"? You are dead wrong! We're talking about this country, not other religions around the world. I think that you are referring to the minority religion - "ATHEISM"! GOD BLESS AMERICA. PATRIOT WARRIOR.
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/22/2007
Twisted logic of the Right, Exhibit A: 'dr' writes: "If you don't want to look at Jesus Christ then close your eyes while passing." and then follows up with: "I am so sick of the ACLU trying to pass their beliefs on to others."
Written by TW
on 6/22/2007
Simple...each person should their faith personal and private. If someone needs a picture of Jesus or L. Ron Hubbard or anyone to substain their faith then perhaps they walk on weak legs. In the vein...if a picture of the same listed above causes a person concern perhaps there is a weakness of self esteem that needs addressing.
Written by LT
on 6/22/2007
This is one of the most heated issues that I have experienced on this board! Joe Cook, and the atheist ACLU (minority) lawless enforcers should discard all of their US currency, immediately! On the bills, it states - "IN GOD WE TRUST"! Get rid of them now Joe!! It's not about the US Constitution, it is about shoving the ACLU's personal minority beliefs down the throats of the majority! It is time that this stops immediately! The minority does not rule! However, tell that to the "DEMOCRATS". When US Presidents, members of congress,and federal judges, are sworn in, a "BIBLE" is used. The military when sworn in, says - "so help me GOD". Each day in congress, a special religious prayer is given! "GOD BLESS AMERICA". PATRIOT WARRIOR.
Written by PATRIOT WARRIOR
on 6/22/2007
I am afraid it will have to come down. Something like this happened not too long ago in Alabama with the Ten Commandments and they were removed.
On a positive note, at least Jesus Christ is the news.
Written by Jimmy Headrick
on 6/22/2007
Although the focus of the ACLU bothers me my memory of the last several freedom of religion cases on the Northshore indicates the public bodies lost. That being the case, is it wise to expend public funds on what is likely to be a loser.
Regardless of my personal views, it seems the courts consistently disagrees with the public bodies and we have a decidedly conservative court.
Would not the inyelligent and responsible course be to accept the courts decisions. After all, we expect those who enter the court house in Slidell to accept the rulings of that court, why don't we accept the ruling of the federal courts. Or dod we all get to pick and choose those laws we agree with.
I sse no harm in hanging religious icon in a courthouse but in civics class I was taught this country is one of law not of men.
Written by Johnny
on 6/22/2007
TW to me pictures are just pictures. I don't believe they symbolize a departure from the rule of law in any courtroom or any public building. As long as all are included, I have no problem seeing pictures of various beliefs in courtrooms. Hitler was raised Christian. He could hardly be called a Christian. I have been a practicing Catholic all my life and we view the breaking of any of the 10 Commandments as serious sin. Legal? The Church doesn't view the 10 Commandments as "legal" matters. The Church deals in moral matters. Murder and theft are also covered by laws of the state. Everyone who wants to be truthful knows that the ACLU interfers in every part of society and not normally as a good thing.
Written by Sharon
on 6/22/2007
Regarding the ACLU Fights Jesus Portrait hanging in the Slidel Courthouse . Why don't the Courthouse hang a picture or image of every religion known to be used by mankind at this time on this wall . Maybe even the ACLU image ,words or Joe Cooks picture could be put there also . There seems to be enough space or room on that wall to handle that .. that should satisfy and keep happy everybodies religious desires including the ACLU desire for no religion . This is another waste of good time and money by the Federal Government that could well be used by the Katrina victim s ....
The above can be used as a humerous or meaningful suggestion , take your choice ..
Written by Huey , Amite, La
on 6/22/2007
Are you giving us your personal opinion Mr. Malec?
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
Fantastic. Let's have portraits of Darwin, Dawkins, Hitchens, and Baron d'Holbach put up as well.
Or perhaps the money would be better spent on spell-checking this website.
Written by Professor Chronotis
on 6/22/2007
My final word on this: I refuse to teach a kindergarten class in consitutional law to some of you folks. Educate yourselves and come back when you have something to say beyond just your personal opinion.
Written by J. Michael Malec
on 6/22/2007
Send the ACLU a Christmas card and an Easter card. Hopefully the Slidell government will have the courage to stand up to this organization. Our country and each state was founded on "Christian" principals!
Written by Sid Sanders
on 6/22/2007
Strictly construed, the Establishment Clause prevents congress from establishing a law which would create a national religion.
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
Mr. Malec. What LA law references Jesus and the slidell courthouse?
Written by JT
on 6/22/2007
Hi Jeff! I met you last week at Martha Laque's house in Luling. I would like to run this on our editorial page. Let me know if it's ok and send a pic to go with it!
Thanks,
Ann
For the past ten years, a portrait of Jesus Christ in the Slidell City Court created no controversy. It had been hanging in the lobby of the courthouse ever since it was originally constructed in 1997. In that time, not one person had complained to court officials. 
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