I couldn’t help but think of those words from Lewis Carroll’s “Through the Looking-Glass” as I listened to Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson’s recent press conference. Paulson, the 700 billion-dollar man, was indicating yet another change in direction for the Bush administration’s financial bailout plan. The stock market didn’t seem overly impressed with Paulson’s change of course, as evidenced by a further 400 point plunge in the Dow Jones average.
A recent article in Forbes magazine estimates the total fiscal stimulus put forth so far by both the Federal Reserve Board and the Treasury Department to be approximately $5 trillion. Before this avalanche of “stimulus” began, the federal debt was $10 trillion. Our federal government is potentially putting us half as much again in debt (though Fed Chairman Bernanke and Secretary Paulson would argue that taxpayers will be getting some of the $5 trillion back—they just have no clue how much or when.)
The whiffling through the tugley wood isn’t confined to the Fed and the Bush administration. Congress and the Obama team will soon be burbling as well. They have their own list of bailout targets.
The automobile industry is in dire straits and is asking for help. The state of California has already requested billions in loans to put off the tough fiscal decisions needed to rein in its $15 billion deficit. New York, New Jersey, and Michigan—to name a few—are other states tottering on the edge of bankruptcy. Many major cities will likely join the bandwagon. The line of supplicants forming at the doors of the White House and the Capitol will be long, indeed.
Before we wade further into the swamp, we might want to remember that our mission was to drain it. The original bailout was designed to thaw the freeze in lending necessary for the economy to function. The concept was for the Treasury Department to buy the bad real estate loan portfolios which were creating uncertainty in the markets. Treasury has now decided that approach is too difficult to implement and is using the bailout money to purchase preferred stock in banks--with no requirement for increased lending or for private equity to match the federal dollars.
Lending billions of dollars to struggling state and local governments would be a slippery slope. The states in the worst shape are the ones with high tax rates and excessive spending habits. Their politics are often unduly influenced by their public employee unions. These special interest groups are quick to push through tax increases and are adept at stopping any attempts to cut spending. Sending huge amounts of federal tax dollars to states that refuse to live within their means will not be popular with taxpayers in states with sound fiscal practices. The fiscally challenged states are generally the ones that gave President-Elect Obama and the Democrats in Congress their margins of victory. That being the case, they won’t be bashful about asking for favors.
Taxpayers should pray that the bailout explosion does not cause more harm than good and gets refocused to practices that will shore up the economy, not grow government. At the outset, the goal of federal intervention was to address the collapse of the housing market and restore the availability of credit for businesses and consumers. It is time to drop the jabberwocky, focus on the original goals, and minimize the impact on deficits, inflation, and the future standard of living of our children and grandchildren.
More sinister than the ‘supposed’ or ‘predicted’ collapse of the ‘big 3’ is the oil falling to 50 bucks…. Now it is good, but then again, I do not see $1.25 or less a gallon fuel prices….. But consider, the escalation in gas prices caused less driving………. Which of course decreased the demands and rigors placed upon our transportation infrastructure (roads, bridges, building, repairing, etc.) So, the costs of such were no longer a priority, and put on the backburner…. I love good old John Breaux’s mantra when he says “I would rather have half of something, than all of nothing”. With the reduction in fuel costs demands on the roadways will rebound, causing another ‘economic crisis’ that Obama, and various State D.O.T.’s will be forced to contend with……. We are being assaulted by terrorists…… And the goal is to bankrupt and demoralize the United States…. Overwhelming us with fear based needs that cannot be satisfied because we are incapable of differentiating between needs and wants…… That is the ‘getting the half of something’ part of the equation…….. GM bought up trolley cars all around the country back in the 50’s and 60’s so that they could be dismantled, and they could market their buses to municipalities instead…… J.D. Rockefeller once wrote in a book “To make something valuable, you must first make it rare”…… And again, we are seeing that gasoline is NOT rare….. Even with pirates hijacking 2 million barrels out at sea………. Obama, and Piyush are two different ends of the same spectrum (in other words folks, a circle) we are going to be faced with if events currently experienced are measured and acted upon in the same fashion we currently do so when future conditions are considered…… It is time to quit chasing our tails, or the tales, and roll our shirt sleeves up and decide what we have to do……. Chrysler and Ford have jumped onto the GM bushel basket bandwagon….. I am not qualified in making a proclamation as to what their needs are or are not, nor do I profess to completely fathom what their ‘wants’ may be aside from 50 billion followed by…….. I have a horrible feeling that the lessons have not been dealt yet…….. Next year is going to compound, followed by the next, and the next…….. Our attentions are being diverted towards a mantra that is an illusion, and the ‘cures’ being offered up are simply snake oil in a bottle… Our nation is under assault…… It is time to take it back…… Lower the cost of living, at the same time increase the standard of living…….. This can only be accomplished through diligent production of useful commodities….. that sell……… and are viable for export…… And of course we have to look at a reduction in our infrastructure needs building and maintenance costs……. Trade across the borders? Yes, by all means, but it is up to us to decide what we can or will manufacture and how many jobs we want to create… Nothing is stopping us but ourselves and our own laziness, or stupidity, or ignorant leaders and policy makers…… We are being sold down the river……. Health care/social security retirement…. It is fixable and stable in 120 days with a few strokes of a pen if that is what folks want……… At NO extra cost……………….. aside from that which is currently acceptable….. You simply paint the horse a different color and feed it from a different feed store source…… While doing away with a few bells and whistles that are nothing more than dangerous and potentially crippling gopher holes in the pasture that is supposed to be the green, green fields of society…… Written by The ignorance is getting to be suffocating
on 11/20/2008
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Let's see now, ahhh,,, paper clips....... Paper clip making machine..... I think a person can go to school and in 14 months time be adequetly trained to push the on button, or the off button... Oh, and learn how to feed the wire feed stock through a little hole in the side of the machine..... Shouldn't cost but $10,000.00 per student at an amazing "Louisiana Technical School" to teach them how to do this..... In fact, they can even offer side courses on how to push the on/off button on conveyor belts, and television monitors, and light switches, and all sorts of neat electrical components!!!!! But the paper clip making machine????? That thing can be run 24/7 creating 4 to 5 jobs, then of course there is the guy that samples every 1000 boxes to make sure that 25, 50, or 100 paper clips are being put in a box instead of 28, 42, or 96.... And there could be a guy that puts the paper clip boxes into bigger boxes, and of course the guy that stacks the boxes on the warehouse floor, and the forklift operator, and the secretary, and the supervisor, and... and.... and..... and..... Ahhhhhh,,, 20, 30 + jobs? Paper clip making machine? Ehhhhhhhm,,,,,, 250K?.............. Written by
on 11/20/2008
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I could be wrong, but I don't think - should all three of the "Big Three" go bankrupt - it will mean 300,000 + autoworkers unemployed (for very long) and no domestic automotive industry. Maybe a slightly smaller domestic automotive industry, with workers making less, but still there. All these artificially high prices - housing, autoworkers pay, crops, etc.... just like Humpty Dumpty... it all comes falling down eventually. The STRONGEST ECONOMY (STRONGECON™) we can have is one that can compete, compete both with foreign nations and internally with domestic competion. Government is not doing anyone a favor when it takes money from the public (where it has to be profitable to be spent well) to instead prop up failing businesses.... not that this will deter them in the least. Written by kpf
on 11/18/2008
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The loss of all those ‘thousands’ of (elevator operators) jobs occurred during the span of quite a few decades, and in each geographical proximity that they did occur (which were a hundred or better) only suffered one or two being let out into the job market at a time… Not thousands of jobs in one fell swoop, during a fine sunny week, in one location, or two or three or four locations…… And even though those one or two (elevator operators) got ‘laid-off’, buildings were still being built, elevators were still being built, and elevators were still being installed, and elevators were still being serviced and maintained by service workers…. And the cable that hoisted the elevator was still being manufactured and sold to other industry needs as well, like cranes, and for electrical power transmission lines. And the paneling that went inside the elevators was still being manufactured and sold to the building industry. And the new elevators, and light bulbs were still being made and put into elevators, and houses, and schools, and buildings, and… and…. and…. and…. I think you get the picture there KPF…. Elevators really have no strategic importance when national defense comes into play….. Usually that is……. And I don’t even think you understand the interchangeability for MIL-SPEC……. But I will give you an idea…. Do you know what helped defeat the Luftwaffe in Germany during W.W. II? Ball bearings...... We bombed the daylights out of those ball bearing plants...... Kind of hard to make a propellar spin at several thousand r.p.m.‘s without good ball bearings..... But good ball bearings aren’t the only things that are needed for a nations defense........ It has been said that need is the mother of all invention…. Picture a ’91 Dodge Ram – Cummins power pack – German 5 speed Getrag transmission, stock drive train and power assembly system……. (Willkommen bei der GETRAG Corporate Group, dem Systemlieferanten und Integrationspartner für Getriebe- und Antriebsstrangsysteme.) Crappy Getrag tranny couldn’t handle the torque put out by my Cummins 6-pac....... Well Gears..... Stripped, slanted, shived, and burnt..... All over da places insides, yuuucckkkkkk!!!! Replacement cost? $3,500.00..... BIG BUMMER......... No way,,,,,, I got the 40‘ mini float (which I welded an 8‘ extension on) and the truck package combo at a big time discount at twelve-five...... with only 62K miles on it... Did so well I didn’t even mind financing it for 36 months......... In other words, a 35K unit for a little over 1/3 of the orgional cost..... Not going to put out 35 hundred......... Soooooo.......... What else is available......??? Ford New-Process 435 – 4 speed manual transmission...... From the junkyard, 240 bucks..... Hmmmmmm...... Mil-Spec......? So how to mate them up.... You know, make the POTENTIAL woikable??? Ahhhhhhh,,,, Chevrolet clutch / Cummins pressure plate, Ford throw-out bearing....... 1-1/2 inch brass insert on the flywheel (American ASTM grade), SHADES OF HASHIMOTO STYLE Shindau hydraulic clutch piston (Gott’a give the Japs a piece of the action ya know)..... Slapped the Ford New – Process 435/4 - speed transmission into place – custom cut, custom balanced a new drive shaft assembly (Torque – torque – torque you know) that hooked up to a 2 – speed Brown-Lite Hi/Lo secondary power transmission assembly, accompanied with an additonal custom cut, custom balanced drive shaft (Torque – torque – torque you know) which trailed on down to a Dana-Spicer posi-traction rear end....... Well Rear Gears!!!!!! End result....? 48‘ mini float - #7,500 in weight.... Truck weight? #7,200...... Cargo? #25,000....... That’s right, a dually hauling a little more than #32,000 (pound for pound, ounce for ounce in comparison to a Kennywhumper, or a Peterbuilt? Unbelievable..... Fruehauf suspension on the float...... 75 m.p.h. on step, 26 m.p.g.......... Bob tailing? 140 m.p.h. (Now that is flying in a dually, and the milage only dropped to 24 m.p.g.)..... Now here we have a combination of a Dodge, a Ford, a Chevrolet, and various powerplant/drive-train assemblies....... Didn’t have to worry about the Germans, and I only used the Jap tool because of a little Dodge-Chrysler-Plymoth pact with Mitsubishi.... I could have got around that as well if I felt the need..... Now imagine a United States with only Ford and Dodge.... From a stragegic standpoint not very firm policy..... And from a governement procurement standpoint, again, not a very firm policy.... Can’t even get a competitive bid when there are only two players at the table... What does San Francisco, New Orleans, and GM have in common? Trolly cars..... Back in the 50’s to the 60’s GM bought up all the public transportation in the form of trolly cars so that it could produce buses for mass transit with little competition to detract from their sales... What does GM, the DuPonts, Germany, and W.W.II have in common? Well, GM used to be, don’t know if it still is,,,, a member of the DuPont family of interests.... And, after W.W. II GM sued the U.S. Government for damages to its manufacturing facilities that were bombed in Germany while we were going after other things asides from ball bearings..... The AIG bailout? I think finance and insurance is their main game.... Funny thing about insurance companies, they don’t pay up for property casualties of war........ So here we have the potential of bailing out an insurance policy, and giving up a strategic asset (GM and FMC are heavy contributors to defense contracting when their particular abilities are necessary for National Sovergnty/Security issues)........ So, if we were attacked, or needed addtional manufacturing output (which was our clout that helped us route the Germans in W.W. I and II, and incidentally, behind the Chinese, we owe the Germans the second greatest amount of money) we would be down 1/3 of our ability for mechanization/mobilization purposes.... Doesn’t sound like very good domestic OR foreign policy to me..... But then again, what do I know, I have “concrete for brains“... But let me take it a bit farther, back to the elevator operator and all that........ When the lay off occured, that person was easily absorbed into an ongoing system.... Who knows, perhaps he became an usher at a movie theater, or maybe he worked in a toll booth, or perhaps took up a job as a janitor in a public school somewhere,,,,,, who knows..... But thousands of jobs (AND I MEAN THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS) at one fell swoop in fairly concentrated proximities (We already have one here in Louisiana) up North? Bowling Green, Kentucky... Lansing, Michigan... Detroit, Michigan... Flint, Saginaw, Pontiac...... Indianapolis, Indiana....... Morain, Ohio..... Janesville, Wisconsin…… Spring Hill, Tennessee…. And Canada, and on.. and on… and on…. GM is a very, very, very diversified corporation…. Offshore oil and gas industry? Detroit Diesel baby, yeah!!! Nationwide trucking? Allison Transmissions!!! But I am getting off track, so back to the elevator operator….. Easily absorbed into the system… And thousands upon thousands of folks at various geographical proximities at one time??? For every direct GM job, there are perhaps 2 associated jobs that are directly linked to those, and then there are perhaps 3 abstract jobs that are linked to those…. And then you have mortgages, the hamburger stands (You know, Spunkie’s, where every ‘Joe’ likes to get a good burger) and the five and dime stores, and the shoe stores, and the movie house (where the elevator operator is an usher at, or perhaps it is his grandson) and the neighborhood grocery store, and on and on and on with all the adverse effects that thousands of people they depend upon for customers will have on their businesses when all of a sudden GM workers don’t get a paycheck…….. RIGHT THEN AND THERE IT WILL BE D-DAY WHEN GM SAYS; “NO PAYROLL THIS WEEK FOLKS, WE IS SHUTTING OUR DOORS”……. Now, in as far as 50 billion goes? Me thinks they needs to be figgering out how to reduce that request…….. But take into account right off the bat just unemployment……… 36 weeks? 140K + people? That alone approaches over 200 million dollars I guess…… So we already know we are in the hole for 200+ million bucks…… And then consider the mechanics, and the dealers, and the repair people out on the streets…….. And they are not just going to go Chapter 11 one day and everything is fine the next…. Leaner, meaner you say? I agree, but then again, I would beg to ask just how much of a role did U.S. policies play in causing this hemorrhaging of GM? E.P.A.? Foreign trade agreements? Folks keep talking about all the great cars coming from overseas…. Guess what? Most Favored Foreign Nation Trading Status………. Japan…….. mid to late 50’s…….. Nissan pickups, German V.W.’s…….. Then came Honda……. And then came the aura of self loathing here in the United States… And the media advertised, and advertised, and advertised……. And mesmerized, and mesmerized, and mesmerized……. Auto manufacturers come, and auto manufacturers go…. There have been hundreds of them if not scores and scores of them since the automobile was first invented by Benz back in the late 1800’s……… (Although I think a Frenchman was credited with the first concept for a steam ‘car’ back in France in the late 1700’s)…. But you aren’t going to go out and start a car company from scratch today? Free market you and the rest of the world cry? Yeah, try getting past the crash tests, the roll over tests, the side impact tests, the gas tank tests, the windshield tests, the headlight tests, etc., etc., etc. and then figure on insurance, and marketing and E.P.A. and on and on and on….. So really and truly, can we really afford NOT to….. But I do believe GM needs to focus on its production line product….. Lee Iacoca would probably be well suited as a consultant… Electric cars are necessary, and perhaps mass transit pursuits, like mono-rail units? But that is up to the boys @ GM….. I think they need to assemble a think tank and get some brainstorming going.. And we need to figure out a way to keep that crop irrigated…. Written by
on 11/18/2008
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goodness.... my only point was that the country... and its economy... survived the loss of all these thousands of "lost" jobs (elevator operators). Also there are advantages to having fewer people with the same productivity. We're not all engaged in hunting and gathering as we were a million years ago, "that was "full employment" but "progress" means FEWER people producing the same output as had previously required more people. Sure, people lose their jobs in the short term but they find other jobs (just as the typewritter companies employees did following the invention of the personal computer). "Protecting" jobs and failing businesses will not work long term. Detroit needs to go bankrupt, renegotiate all their contracts and come back "leaner, meaner, and smarter." No government intervention (taxpayer money used to bail them out - ... oh excuuuuuussssse me... "rescue" is the latest PC term, no? - is needed. Written by kpf
on 11/18/2008
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Not being contrary, or argumentative, but it is very seldom anymore that a person encounters an elevator operator any more, or a lavatory attendant for that matter…. And in both instances those people are priceless…… Take the elevator operator for instance…. He (or she, but my chauvinistic sensibilities prefer a man for the job, preferably a person with wit, intelligence, good humor) serves as not only an operator, but is a regular information desk all by himself….. He knows where the local print shop is, where the ‘good’ restaurants are, can tell you of various tailors, or clothing stores, shoe stores, how long it will take to get from point A to point B, the attractions, the best clubs and lounges, where the entertainment is, can tell you if it is going to rain, or snow, or get unbearably hot, where a barber is, etc., etc., etc…… If you want ‘cheap’ hotel rooms, I would suggest Motel 6 or a Super 8, and they generally don’t require an elevator anyways…. A hotel elevator operator is sort of like a ‘semi-retirement’ job…. One that allows a person to work, and if that person loves the public/people, it is a great job that actually adds to the value of an establishment…. I haven’t even begun to speak of the enhanced security a hotel gains by having them on the payroll, what with keeping out the riff-raff and all….. And a lavatory attendant….. Well, the lavatory is always clean and orderly, there are various colognes and amenities for appearances sake that can be used, perhaps a brushing off of the suit, and the security? It is great!!!!…… They are great, and I enjoy tipping whenever I encounter one of these rarities…. And again, the ’information desk’ as well…… Another tangent as well……. The caboose on a train….. I always thought of the guy that rides in the caboose as the person that wasn’t ready to retire. Cost? Take 120 freight cares, figure the freight and then figure out his hourly wage in comparison… It can’t be calculated… Yet he is an extra set of eyes and ears, switches the tracks, etc., etc…. There used to be a lucrative gig up Detroit way…. A good ‘wrench’ could pull a transmission on a car that was loaded on a train in approximately 10 or so minutes….. X amount of miles down the track, at a predetermined location, toss the transmission off the side of the slow moving train and whala!!!! A couple hundred bucks for a brand new transmission…… That is if the caboose man didn’t see you, or the bulls at the train yard…… Just a catalytic converter will fetch a couple of hundred dollars these days….. Time necessary? 3 minutes each….. All you need is a battery operated Riobi sawzall……….. So actually cost savings is a state of mind, which isn’t really the bottom line…… I used to go and get an old black man I knew……. His ‘handle’ was Mac-Man and he liked working with me…. We were fairly tight…. He was on a fixed income and couldn’t really walk so good, and he was sort of ‘simple minded’ but he was honest and had a heart of gold. I would pay him cash money and take him on jobs with me…. What did he do? He was an extra set of eyes and ears…… He knew what the jobs were all about once I explained what I wanted him to do, and he would pass out tools, keep track of materials, listen to the workers, give them a hand when they needed it… He was company in the truck during long drives, he made sure I didn’t forget things like my notepad, or brief case, or calculator, or tape measure, he kept his eyes peeled for the ‘ticketers’ on the highway, reminded me when we were near a good hamburger joint, etc., etc., etc……. In other words, he was priceless….. Sure, I could have done without his help, but then again, in the scheme of things he was more valuable to me working than he was sitting around his homestead with nothing to do…. He was a pleasure to know and work with….. And I suppose my real satisfaction was knowing that at the end of the week when I gave him his pay, he was a man, and he had his own money that he earned to spend as he pleased……. Now I wouldn’t have been able to take on more than him in that type of a billet, because that was what my business could afford, but I rathered doing some additional worth than going all corporate and being a penny pincher to the nub….. because it was My money, My business, and I had the freedom to operate as I saw fit…… Because that came out of MY pocket, not my customers pocket, not out of the governments pocket, not out of anyone else’s pocket… Oh, I know the arguments that will come up, but belay them…… As far as automobile manufacturers’ bailouts? In the 60’s we had cars that got 20+ miles to the gallon…. Only cost a couple thousand bucks, and they ran forever….. One of the reasons Nash/Rambler went out of business is they were built too well….. They NEVER broke down….. And Hudson Hornet’s???? WHAT A SLED!!!!!! Make a me mouth watering….. And Mercury’s? Same as Buicks…… GREAT!!!!!! And Mopar??? WHAATTT!!!!!! NOW THAT IS PHATTT!!!! Now we have an industry reliant upon built in obsolescence, or hefty repairs that can only be carried out by service techs with a zillion dollars worth of computer equipment…. Hell, a head light assembly on a Pontiac? Try $300 -$500 a pop in some instances!!!!!! The problems with the auto industry? Government regulations, EPA, and the customers desire for bells and whistles…. I remember when the idea of cruise control was a cable and a ‘pull throttle’ mounted beneath the dashboard and hooked up to the fuel lever on the carburetor…. Carburetors’!!!! Ha!-ha-!-ha!-ha! WHAT ARE THOSE ANYMORE? Now it is all fuel injected and computer run……. And the fuel economy? How about this? 376.59 MPG Car Found In Museum (It Was Built In 1959 – See Shell Oils Opel)… Or how about the VW beetle? They all got around 30 m.p.g. back in the 60’s… I think the last ‘beetle’ plant shut down in the mid – 90’s… It was down in Mexico… Remember the ‘Metro’?... And to buy a car today? Try 20 – 30K? (As in almost half the price of a home) and how long do they last? 5 or 6 years…. I have toured the Corvette assembly plant in Bowling Green Kentucky (back in the mid – 80’s, and I rapidly saw why they cost over 40K back then.,….. what a joke)… I have toured various defense contractor plants and facilities around the nation, even wandered around Boeings place for awhile…. Our problem is that most people don’t understand the correlation between value and worth…….. And here we deal with farm subsidies, and the ethanol scam… Costs more to produce than the B.T.U.’s you can get out of it….. And T.Boone Pickens? Now natural gas is dropping ‘making wind power’ less capable of a capital return on investment…. Oh well, I could show T. Boone Pickens a thing or two, but he just wouldn’t ‘get it’ probably….. So basically what we have is corporate people running the world instead of the Henry Fords of business that really knew how to make things happen…… It is all in approach, technique, as well as cause and effect…….. WHAT ARE THE DESIRED OUTCOMES PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO ACHIEVE? Remember……… You have to know what that is before you can map a plan to get there…. In the race for excellence, there is no finish line….. Written by
on 11/17/2008
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One final point on the government "saving jobs." Folks my age and older (53) can remember a time when most elevators had a person paid to operate it. So a hotel with six elevators may have had 24 to 30 peopple employed to operate these elevators. Imagine if all these people belonged to a powerful union which lobbied D.C. and made large campaign contribuions to one or both political parties. You'd be hearing how their union is "too big to fail" and how - if they lost their jobs - they wouldn't be spending all their money helping the rest of the economy. What you need to realize is by firing all these people and operating the damn elevators ourselves we can now take advantage of cheaper hotel rooms. That means 1) we have more money to help other industries with the purchases made with ths extra money and 2) we can both afford to take more trips and spend more money at our destination. Beware special interests defining the outcome in a short-sightednarrow focus. Look beyond the immediate impact (lost jobs today) to the benefits of tomorrow (equal productivity with less labor; heaper goods and services, etc.). Written by kpf
on 11/16/2008
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hoo-wee... I need to take my time and use spell check Written by kpf
on 11/15/2008
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Classic "template" for government intervention in the market: 1) it helps a minority of affluent citizens by causing many more less-affluent citizens to bear the costs and 2) it is counterproductive in the log run. "AID to farmers" - isn't that artificially high prices that consumers must pay? Automotive bailouts? Isn't that giving money to automobile manufacturers who are simply NOT PROVIDING what the citizens want? To say the Crysler bailout "netted the government" any amount of money overlooks several thngs 1) the money the government used to bail out Crysler was taken from people who tried to save that same damn money by buying a better (Japanese) product (it kind of defeats the pupose of buying a cheaper more reliable car when Uncle Sam comes around and takes the money you've saved and gives it to the manufacturer whose products you the consumer has rejected). 2) this money could have been used by the private sector to build businesses that would NEVER need to be bailed out due to providing what the consumer wants. Look... if the Crysler bailout years past did not happen then American automotive manufactures would have been FORCED (by the market/consumer) to provide better automobiles (or go out of business). Why should lower wage earners - who reject the inferior union built high priced <largely due to union members having a much higher wages/benefits than the average wage earner> Detriot automobiles have their money available for their families reduced (due to increased taxes to bailout this or that entity) to keep the poor performing auto manufactiurer in buiness? Are you aware that much of this bailout money taken from working American families is going to overseas banks? It's true and - of course - you won't hear any talk of keeping American jobs by bailing out these foreign banks. Where is our meadia on this issue, one wonders? Written by kpf
on 11/15/2008
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The Chrysler bailout netted the government $500 million in the end. Bailouts can work if they are competently handled which is beyond the Bush Administration's capacity apparently. Written by David Quidd
on 11/15/2008
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Jabberwocky indeed............ And if no one can afford to buy cars in the first place, what good does bailing out the Big 3 do, or waiting around for some magical buyout by foreigners????? What happened to the massive production in automobiles that was announced/rumored by the Chinese 3 years ago???? In the first place, there has to be honest numbers posted so people at least know what the bottom line is....................... Written by
on 11/15/2008
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I do not want anyone punished for their actions, nobody, nowhere. Unfortunately that's not how the world works. If we do not lead healthy lifestyles, we die young. No bailout for that. Many of those who lead healthy lifestyles do so because they have seen the conseqences fo those who do not. Corporations and lending instututions will do the right thing - if they know that a "loss" is a "loss" - in other words no taxpayer to bail them out. IF the Big Three automakers go bankrupt we will NOT lose 3 million jobs. These autoworkers will go back to work for whoever buys the auto manufacturing plants - at a rate of pay and benefits less than what they had before, but they will not be unemployed. ars will continue to be made in America, the taxpayer will only be paying for temporary unemployment for those workers temporarily out of work - not gazillions of dollars to keep unsucessful businesses afloat; no Obama "Czar" needed, just "let it be." Written by kpf
on 11/15/2008
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I feel about the same as this Newsweek column. http://www.newsweek.com/id/168941/page/2 Chrysler is already too far gone in any case but as regards the Other Two they have made mistakes and really ought to be having to feel the wrath of the market and on the face of it a Chapter 11 bankruptcy would seem to be a possible solution, however there are too many questions and complications about a Chapter 11 bankruptcy for me to feel that that is the right idea and certainly I cannot be comfortable with the thought of total shutdown and possibly 2-3 million Americans out of a job at this time. I can't see that that is necessarily comparable to the airlines' situations. They need to make some very definitive changes, for absolute certain, but they claim that they're already in the process of doing that, e.g. having the union take over health care obligations (don't the Japanese and German car makers benefit from single-payer health care systems in those countries). All car makers are hurting, too. There'll be changes and painful ones and painful times, one has to figure, however at this time one also has to figure that action rather than inaction is necessary to see that a recession does not slide into being a full-scale depression. Written by Moderate Independent Voice
on 11/15/2008
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I'm not saying there are not legitimate public works - I am against the government taking a dime more than is necessary and also totally against deficit spending - not that this matters as things are so far gone.... Anyway, I was simply disputing the assertion that Hoover was some kind of free market proponent, as in fact he was protectionist and attempted to keep prices artificially high as these bailouts are currently attempting to do. The thinking that the market is anything other than what we make it by our buying choices - that is the root of all this "take control of the economy" nonsense. Instead of bailouts perhaps the governmnet can forbid us from buying imported autos, pay more for a home than it's worth and close all the Wal-Marts. That would accomplish the desired outcomes the bailouts are attempting to achieve, no? Written by kpf
on 11/14/2008
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And then of course there are all the government implemented policies and laws that perhaps makes it very difficult for the U.S. auto maker section to compete and turn a profit effectively.... They could range from NAFTA to most favored trading nation status policies to taxes, to on and on and on and on..... I wonder where government is going to take its part when claiming responsibility, which ultimately leads to the people that put the members in place? Take Bobby Jindal for instance..... Folks think he has what it takes to be President.... The dummy still hasn't looked into the hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars in cost savings provisions that are being offered by Strongconcrete.... What can I say KPF except that it appears that the morons are running the show...??? Written by
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But then again, Congress has hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars to toss at Louisiana and its failed CWPPRA projects offshore, in fact, got so bad Louisiana had to rename that agency as CPRA or something like that to throw folks off balance.... And Bobby Jindal loves to make sure that skid keeps going down the greased tracks.... I wonder what happens when funding dries up? Written by
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Oh, and almost forgot the Chrysler bailout back in the 80's..... Written by
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Uhhhhh,,,, KPF, I guess you have never heard of 'Hoover Dam'? One of the few public works projects ever initiated that not only paid for itself, but also turned a profit......... Something FDR tried to imitate but failed at... Written by
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Hoover enacted protectionist tariffs (Smoot-Hawley) - he most certainly was not a free market proponent. He and FDR had much in common with government attempting to control the market place. Government can never effect anything in contradiction to the economic laws of value, price and distribution. Doing the wrong things (propping up failure instead of allowing market-driven change) will only prolong the inevitable market readjustment; basically wasting money that would otherwise be used by the private sector to realign their businesses to be competative. Detroit automakers were bailed out before, so they did not make the adjustments necessary to be sucessful today. Forcing today's taxpayer's and future generations (thru government debt) to "bailout" businesses which are not selling enough of their products to consumers is not the answer. Allowing these automakers to go bankrupt will result in different ownership (with new labor contracts) to replace them and thus be competitive (that is, we the people will buy more of what they produce). This will be better for all (the manufacturers, consumers and labor) in the long run. Written by kpf
on 11/14/2008
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Doing nothing is the Herbert Hoover approach. That was discredited a long time ago. Written by David Quidd
on 11/14/2008
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Let me see now..... Out of the following; 'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves - -Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:..All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe…….."Beware the Jabberwock, my son!..The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!..Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun - The frumious Bandersnatch!"……..He took his vorpal sword in hand:..Long time the manxome foe he sought -- So rested he by the Tumtum tree,….And stood awhile in thought………….And as in uffish thought he stood,…The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,…Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,…And burbled as it came!................One, two! One, two! and through and through…The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!...He left it dead, and with its head…He went galumphing back………….."And has thou slain the Jabberwock?...Come to my arms, my beamish boy!...O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"…He chortled in his joy…………'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves…Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:….All mimsy were the borogoves,…And the mome raths outgrabe…………………. Only “And, as in uffish thought he stood, The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame, Came whiffling through the tugley wood,
And burbled as it came!” came to mind????????? You are a shallow writer now aren't you????
Written by
on 11/14/2008
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